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Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

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Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#441
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia has at least 15 million articles in languages other than English and around 7 million English articles. Are you asserting that it is standard that Americans are writing and moderating all of these articles in other languages?

In my country, one section mentions English articles (written by amercans) to prove their point.

Then your country Wikipedia admins are idiots if they accept that, as Wikipedia isn't considered a primary source on Wikipedia.

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#442
post #432
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me those links you provided, indicate a lot, of what is wrong for me with wikipedia. Because it is extremely hard to figure out what is going on. Lots of mysterious abbreviations. Unclear timeline. I still don't really know it, it seems the scandal is, that he had a sockpuppet account? And there is only "private" evidence (meaning not public)? "The Arbitration Committee has determined through private evidence, inc…

"Really, really hard to figure out for someone just having a quick look into the topic." Sometimes things are genuinely complicated. If you want to understand the hardest, most elaborate forms of Wikipedia community management you're going to need to work really hard at figuring out what's going on. Community dynamics at this scale, and with this level of bad actors, are not something that can be explained in a few p…

Thank you.

More and more, especially in engineering, I am in contact with people who just want everything to be easy to understand in TikTok length video clips or short posts.

Some things are hard to understand, dynamic systems especially, black or white answers do not exist.

(Sorry for the slightly off-topic/meta rant. This hit a nerve by me.)

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#443

Reason and truth are the enemy of authoritarian regimes. They want you to believe that truth is subjective. Truth and reason provide alternative legitimacy to authority. If nothing is true, there is no basis on which to judge those in power. There is a long legacy of authoritarian regimes attacking curious places, universities, historians, museums, books or any institution that grounds itself in reality which provide…

Aren't you making their point though? The ADL and other Jewish organizations have pointed out that aside from articles about Israel that articles about or mention Jewish topics generally have been editing with disinformation or that made Jews out to be the aggressors. I agree with you that in order to believe in the ideals of liberal democracy that we must have a core belief in truth. And it's absolutely true that th…

Anti semitism or anti Zionist? Asking as the ADL doesn't seem to understand that there's a difference.

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#444
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a source, so "reliable" here has to mean "reliably presenting a full range of notable sources". No editor should be saying you can rely on claims found in Wikipedia, except in the sense of relying that the claims are in the sources. (Except the claim as stated isn't always in the source anyway. Best to check.)

I found Molly White's video here really useful for helping me understand the Reliable Sources policy: https://blog.mollywhite.net/become-a-wikipedian-transcript/ > The way we determine reliability is typically based on the reputation for editorial oversight, and for factchecking and corrections. For example, if you have a reference book that is published by a reputable publisher that has an editorial board and that h…

Yeah. Also, if a specific source is used a lot, it often gets put on a discussion where people vote on how reliable it is. If it's considered unreliable, the use of it will be banned.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/P...

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#445
post #56

Here's the letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ocNyx34Et19sKtlta0bTPPzSPcp... No claims, no evidence. No sources, except "it has come to my attention" and "information received by my office".

What is happening is very scary. Many people don't seem to care about any evidence or sources. They blindly follow whatever lies that their leaders say. I think this has been the case at anytime in history. However, now, with the internet, it is easy to spread such lies to mass and easy for such leaders to make blind followers.

Clearly people care very deeply about sources and evidence -and they're attacking things (wikipedia, various gov websites) which can be used as objective sources.

If you don't have objective sources, it's easier to lead people around by the nose -hence the attack.

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#446
post #104
post #56

Here's the letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ocNyx34Et19sKtlta0bTPPzSPcp... No claims, no evidence. No sources, except "it has come to my attention" and "information received by my office".

Yikes that letter is alarming. > In view of public criticisms, including those expressed by Wikipedia Co-Founder Dr. Lawrence M. Sanger, regarding the opacity of editorial processes and the anonymity of contributors, what justification does the Foundation offer for shielding editors from public scrutiny? Larry Sanger has been criticizing Wikipedia for more than 20 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Sanger#Cri…

Getting really bad vibes from this. Plenty of people in power are unhappy with Wikipedia for years. So far it’s an amazing source and surprisingly neutral given the complexity of the problem. Would not want to lose it in a political fight.

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#447
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia has at least 15 million articles in languages other than English and around 7 million English articles. Are you asserting that it is standard that Americans are writing and moderating all of these articles in other languages?

In my country, one section mentions English articles (written by amercans) to prove their point.

Can you link an example?

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#448
post #442
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Really, really hard to figure out for someone just having a quick look into the topic." Sometimes things are genuinely complicated. If you want to understand the hardest, most elaborate forms of Wikipedia community management you're going to need to work really hard at figuring out what's going on. Community dynamics at this scale, and with this level of bad actors, are not something that can be explained in a few p…

Thank you. More and more, especially in engineering, I am in contact with people who just want everything to be easy to understand in TikTok length video clips or short posts. Some things are hard to understand, dynamic systems especially, black or white answers do not exist. (Sorry for the slightly off-topic/meta rant. This hit a nerve by me.)

Well, I believe things with serious consequences like banning someone permanently - should indeed be presented clearly. Exactly because I know some organisations like to shield themself from criticism, by having a intransparent process.

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#449
post #87

The English Wikipedia is a massive target for influence campaigns. I don't think there are any other communities as resilient as it. Just an example: There's certain individual or group that edited under the name "Icewhiz", was banned, and now operates endless sockpuppet accounts in the topic area to influence Wikipedia's coverage on the Middle East. One of them was an account named "Eostrix", that spent years making…

Wikipedia is the best source of humanities "common knowledge". Yes there are users that abuse the system to push their own point of view. Many articles in Wikipedia have improved tremendously over the years; many times it is not unusual for an article to have over a hundred references. It gives you all the info you want to understand the subject before you delve further through books. Now for politics I can see the problem. Even on a well behaved site like HN you can get polarized views. Just say Israel is committing genocide or ethnic cleansing and you see the reaction. Ditto for Ukraine and now Trumpism. So yes there are pages that reflect views. Take them as such. Another advantage of Wikipedia is that many references are pushed to archive.org and saved.

"DEAR AMERICAN FRIENDS IN THE ADMINISTRATION KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THE WIKIPEDIA"

Re: Wikipedia’s nonprofit status questioned by D.C. U.S. attorney

#450
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The fact that someone so terrible got 99% approval and only one anonymous investigator was able to stop them makes me think that it's likely a lot of other terrible admins who didn't have an anonymous investigator go after them probably go through the process. And the times I've brought up the fact that Wikipedia can be unreliable before, I've had numerous editors come in and claim that wasn't true and that pe…

I wonder if there's room in using AI to gather past edits of someone, as part of vetting, and use the sentiment analysis to check how neutral their biases are.

AI is itself biased because the training data is.
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