FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#381

Post by silisili » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:01 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

This leaves out a couple important things, at least from the complaint -

1 - ICE never entered the courtroom or interrupted. They stayed outside the room, which is public, but the judge didn't like this and sent them away.

2 - The judge, having learned the person in her courtroom was the target, instructed him to leave through a private, jury door.

These are from the complaint, so cannot be taken as fact, either.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#382

Post by dionian » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:02 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #369

xpe wrote: post #332

If you want a primary source, I recommend reading https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.11... In particular, part D: "Judge DUGAN escorts Flores-Ruiz through a “jury door” to avoid his arrest."

Not necessarily to avoid his arrest, only the fact they went through a jury door is indicated for now.

It would be interesting to hear if there was another valid reason for this

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#383

Post by lolinder » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:02 PM UTC

Miner49er wrote: post #356

jawiggins wrote: post #291

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the…

How in the world is this an arrestable offense. Escorting someone out of a room?

If it can be proven that she deliberately escorted the person through the non-public exit to the courtroom with the intent of helping them evade arrest by officers with a warrant who were waiting outside at the other entrance, how would that not be an arrestable offence?

We're extremely light on facts right now, so I'm not taking the above quoted story at face value, but if one were to take it at face value it seems pretty clear cut.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#384

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

_mlbt wrote: post #175

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with deporting illegal immigrants through legal channels that allow for due process and follow the rulings of immigration courts. Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens.

> Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens. I must have missed that, when did that happen?

It's been all over the news. Here's one incident:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/us/lopez-gomez-citizen-detain...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#385

Post by nonethewiser » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

This would be pretty sad if she did help him evade ICE. He was in court for battery charges and in the country illegally. ICE arresting him does not interfere with any due process. Which he 100% needs to get (but arresting him is still part of that).

What is left here thats worth protecting? Not someone we want in the country and the agents had a warrant for his arrest (court comes after that). I feel like this is a serious own-goal by the people opposing this. Read the complaint corroborated by witnesses - she clearly did help him evade arrest: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.11...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#386

Post by fnordpiglet » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

EgregiousCube wrote: post #359

fnordpiglet wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact the FBI participated in this arrest is chilling. ICE being a proto secret police seems to be perceived already. The FBI now? There’s question whether the ICE agents even had legal grounds to demand arrest regardless, whether they had a warrant, etc - and the facts established are pretty clearly not prosecutable. So this is pure intimidation, going after the judicial in what will likely be a flagrantly abusiv…

The accused is accused of violating federal law, so it's normal that a federal agency would make the arrest. FBI seems to make more sense than DEA or ATF, no?

It’s not that the agency is wrong; it’s that the agency would do it. This is the agency that since J Edgar Hoover has very carefully rebuilt its reputation and is very guarded in it. This act is entirely reminiscent of the political corruption of the FBI of old. That regression, that fast, is frightening.

ICE being shady is by many people accepted, the DEA, ATF even. But the FBI has built itself a pretty strong reputation of integrity and professionalism, and resistance to political pressure and corruption. In some ways I at least viewed it as a firewall in law enforcement against this sort of stuff.

Now who watches the watchers?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#387

Post by amacbride » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #157

staticman2 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is intended to be a hypothetical but there is no IRS form where "Drug Dealer" is the correct answer. Drug dealing income would be disclosed as "Other income". If you volunteer "drug dealer" my guess is they could use it against you. Similar to showing up at FBI headquarters and shouting "I'm a drug dealer!"

> I'm not sure if this is intended to be a hypothetical but there is no IRS form where "Drug Dealer" is the correct answer. What else would you put in the Occupation field at the end of the form?

Import/Export Specialist

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#388

Post by Aeolun » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #333

bluGill wrote: post #19

This will be interesting for the 5th amendment. They cannot arrest you for putting "drug dealer" on your tax forms as your job since you are compelled to answer that question honestly. The defendant was compelled to appear in court which means he couldn't protect his own privacy by being elsewhere - are these the same thing? I don't know how courts will see it, but it is an interesting legal question that I hope some…

The thesis is that immigrants have no constitutional rights because they aren't citizens, or the stronger form, that they are invaders and thus enemy combatants. The Supreme Court is going to have to clarify the existence or non-existence of constitutional rights for people living here unlawfully. And then the populace is going to have to make sure that the president doesn't conclude that he can ignore that ruling if…

On that basis tourists have no constitutional rights either. I find it hard to believe anyone would want to visit the US now, but surely that has an even further chilling effect.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#389

Post by kansface » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

whoknowsidont wrote: post #12

Democratic states really need to start disallowing federal agents to operate within their borders and band together. Activate their respective national guards and make it happen. Yes, that means defying federal law. Yes that means exactly the consequences you want to draw from those actions. There is no other option at this point. The law is dead in the U.S.

No, absolutely not. Trump would federalize the national guard as did Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson and charge the governors with treason. You advocate for de facto succession of the states - we settled that matter with blood last time. The next time will be far worse.

The rule of law does not prohibit bad arrests nor can it. The rule of law provides the opportunity for remedy after the fact.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#390

Post by kelseyfrog » Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 5:04 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #360

pjc50 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incredibly doubtful that they could be successfully prosecuted for this. But they can be successfully arrested. You can beat the rap but not the ride, etc. The US is not yet at the level of dysfunction where jurisdiction is settled with gunfire, but ICE seem to be determined to move that closer.

Can you explain how this action reasonably leads to gunfire?

GP wasn't saying that one leads to another in a causal sense - simply that there are levels of dysfunction and this step is closer to the dysfunction of gunfire than the previous level.