EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#61

Post by Bayart » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:17 PM UTC

myrmidon wrote: post #3

Nice page! I'm extremely happy about efforts like this. You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place. Having standardized chargers for phones and laptops is SUPER nice and would never have happened without intervention IMO. The only equivalent for US "useful, average-citizen friend…

> You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place.

The EU bureaucracy itself is significantly lighter and more purposeful than any of the underlying individual states' bureaucracy, though that might simply be a function of youth and restricted scope.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#62

Post by gessha » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:24 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #10

zophiana wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, to me its crazy how anti-consumer the US is compared to the EU, just because of laws

This law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer. And the US consumer cares a lot less about energy usage since they're much more energy and monetarily rich than the EU. If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.

I just checked the el. prices for Germany on [1] and [2] and I see something like 9-12 euro ct/kWh which is $0.10/kWh. In NY state [3], where I live, the prices right now are $0.25/kWh so 250% more. Average salaries for Germany are $57,198 [4] and $61,984 [5] for US. Maybe I'm missing some details about it but I don't it's about affordability and energy cost. My take is it's a lot more about top-down politics.

[1] https://www.energyprices.eu/electricity/germany

[2] https://spotprices.eu/de/spotprice/de1

[3] https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Prices/Electricity/Monthly...

[4] https://www.learngermanonline.org/salaries-and-living-costs-...

[5] https://www.demandsage.com/average-us-income/

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#63

Post by gizmo » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:26 PM UTC

Phones and tablets are already among the most energy efficient devices. A tablet sips power compared to a desktop PC. Isn't energy use totally dominated by lights, cooling and heating of the spaces we inhabit?

Repairability rules I like. Rules about OS updates are good too. But the energy claims look like BS to me:

> In 1990, the annual electricity consumption for (networked) standby of the base stations and charging cradles of cordless landline phones was 37.1 kWh. In 2020, without measures, this would have been 24.5 kWh. Due to the Ecodesign standby regulation, this was reduced to 16.1 kWh in 2020, a 34% saving. Due to the addition of the 2023 Ecodesign regulation on phones, this is expected to further reduce to 8.0 kWh in 2030, a 63% saving versus no measures.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#64

Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:27 PM UTC

gessha wrote: post #62

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer. And the US consumer cares a lot less about energy usage since they're much more energy and monetarily rich than the EU. If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.

I just checked the el. prices for Germany on [1] and [2] and I see something like 9-12 euro ct/kWh which is $0.10/kWh. In NY state [3], where I live, the prices right now are $0.25/kWh so 250% more. Average salaries for Germany are $57,198 [4] and $61,984 [5] for US. Maybe I'm missing some details about it but I don't it's about affordability and energy cost. My take is it's a lot more about top-down politics. [1] ht…

You only looked at spot prices which is not what a lot for consumers pay in their contracts.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#65

Post by kec » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:30 PM UTC

robin_reala wrote: post #27

wiz21c wrote: post #13

In the shop in my town, they sell televisions. Led ones, oled ones, big screen, the usual stuff. They have about 50 models. All have energy labels C or worse. No A, no A+, no B... Once there was an A one but the picture quality was horrible. I'm happy to be more conscious, but someone is working against the scheme: I don't have a real choice...

This is actually an example of the regulation working. The original energy labelling had done such a good job that every product was routinely getting A or up ratings. So the EU introduced a new system that was much more stringent, dropping everything down to a C at best but more usually an F. Gradually manufacturers are improving again.

“Working” assumes this new scale is actually based on reality and that an A or B is realistically obtainable without compromises (ie here image quality) that no one wants to make.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#66

Post by myrmidon » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #56

myrmidon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will wager that the cost of compliance will dramatically increase, however. What makes you confident in that assumption? Because I would wager that cost of compliance is gonna be pretty much negligible, because manufacturers have most of the numbers already anyway, and this pales in comparison to EMF testing, too. Estimates for effects of the regulation are right there-- they hope for total savings of 8TWh within…

> Estimates for effects of the regulation are right there-- they hope for total savings of 8TWh within 2030, but mainly from longer product lifetime through devices staying functional for longer on old batteries and easier battery repairability. That's an interesting point I didn't realize. I still don't see how they can get to those numbers, do they quote the calculations somewhere? I toned down the claim to be less…

I agree with you that battery tech is basically getting better by itself.

Anecdotally, I bought at least one phone where slightly easier/cheaper repairability of screen + battery would have made me keep the old one.

I think making these metrics clear on product packaging is also becoming more important, because the improvements in phones have slowed down already, and longer lifetimes should be a consequence/benefit (but this is against manufacturer interests).

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#67

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

pona-a wrote: post #29

pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to have small actors being able the try innovation Yes. While I'm generally in favor of the EU regulatory approach they need to learn about and understand the concept of "small business", including the fact that you can't get a new large EU business without it going through the small business stage. There should be a lot more de minimis exemptions from the whole CE marking system.

Most regulations are motivated by universal normative prescriptions. People don't want to be served asbestos in their food, structurally unsound homes being built, or data brokers conspiring to raise your insurance, regardless of the violator in question. Everyone can agree regulation burden exists, but I too often see it invoked in bad faith, like in the case of GDPR. This primes me to ask for concrete proof why any…

Sibling provides an example: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/r...

If you want to market small circuit boards from the EU into the EU, you need to register in all EU countries. It's not 100% clear whether the requirement is incurred at "making available for sale in country X" (ie as soon as you put it on the website) or at the point you make your first sale.

This is on top of trying to untangle what CE marking testing may be required.

On the other hand, if you're a Chinese small board vendor, you just advertise it on AliExpress, put it in the (subsidized!) small parcel post, and ignore the EU rules.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#68

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 3:02 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #28

pjc50 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tariffs on Chinese EVs are very unserious at the same time as subsidies are being withdrawn while the alleged deadline for phaseout of ICE is still in place. VW showed which side they were going to bet on with Dieselgate and should get no further sympathy.

I wonder how much charging infrastructure China has built inside their borders for their cheap EVs. In the EU, everyone who could afford an EV probably already has one. The rest will buy what they can afford and can charge.

> everyone who could afford an EV probably already has one

Obviously not: this depends on the price of EVs, which is a constantly moving target and is determined by .. the import tariffs I just mentioned. Not to mention that cars have a long product lifecycle. I could afford an electric car, I have a space to park it, but for the time being I'm using my elderly petrol car because my annual mileage is low.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/362910/average-uk-car-now... : average UK car is 9 years old. EV tech has changed a lot in that time.

This looks like a comprehensive, long list of Chinese incentives; https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-china-hand/chinese-ev-dil... ; each EU country has its own schemes.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#69

Post by gessha » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 3:04 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #64

gessha wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just checked the el. prices for Germany on [1] and [2] and I see something like 9-12 euro ct/kWh which is $0.10/kWh. In NY state [3], where I live, the prices right now are $0.25/kWh so 250% more. Average salaries for Germany are $57,198 [4] and $61,984 [5] for US. Maybe I'm missing some details about it but I don't it's about affordability and energy cost. My take is it's a lot more about top-down politics. [1] ht…

You only looked at spot prices which is not what a lot for consumers pay in their contracts.

That's a good point. The numbers go the opposite way if you check household prices. Are prices in Germany anomalous due to them putting their eggs in the Russian gas basket? Countries with nuclear power plants seem to have lower electricity prices (who would've known).

US $0.18/kWh [1]

DE $0.44/kWh [2]

EU $0.32/kWh [2]

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610

[2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#70

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 3:07 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #61

myrmidon wrote: post #3

Nice page! I'm extremely happy about efforts like this. You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place. Having standardized chargers for phones and laptops is SUPER nice and would never have happened without intervention IMO. The only equivalent for US "useful, average-citizen friend…

> You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place. The EU bureaucracy itself is significantly lighter and more purposeful than any of the underlying individual states' bureaucracy, though that might simply be a function of youth and restricted scope.

> The EU bureaucracy itself is significantly lighter and more purposeful than any of the underlying individual states' bureaucracy

The EU ""states rights"" (subsidiarity) is a lot stronger and more real than the corresponding structures in the US. It also doesn't really do direct enforcement - there's no EU federal police checking tablets, it's all done through national level enforcement.