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On loyalty to your employer (2018)

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Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#81

Post by paulcole »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #77
p3rls wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a retarded modern take on things, not everyone derives meaning from checking off a bucket list they read about on some internet listicle. For some of us, creating and contributing is the goal.

That wasn't the point and you've completely misread it. The very first point was "family and friends" and for me , travel is something that helps me experience the broader world. It's not a bucket list, it's the fact that this world is immense, filled with experiences and that we only have one lifetime to find those experiences that enrich our short time here. The hypothetical question is is whether this individual h…

> The hypothetical question is is whether this individual has already experienced everything there was to experience and decided "No, working 9-9 is what I value in life!"

This is a foolish question.

A person can’t experience “everything” even if given a life of 10,000 years.

Everybody has to decide what they value in life before experiencing everything.

The question is whether someone has decided that the thing they’re doing is what they personally find value in or not.

The alternative which I’ll admit is sad (and which is not what you have said to this point) is that someone is doing something that they do not find value in. Your whole point has been that working is not a good way to spend limited life, without acknowledging that what you call work someone else calls enrichment.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#82

Post by dismas »

ohgr wrote: post #10

I am not loyal to my employer. I am loyal to doing competent work. If our goals align, then we will get on. Any gaslighting or bullshit past that will be fucked off instantly.

> I am loyal to doing competent work. If our goals align, then we will get on.

100% agreed here, but I've also noticed I've had a fair few managers who didn't know what to do with someone like this. Sure, promotions are nice and what not, but if I'm not producing interesting work (or managing a team of people producing interesting work), it's pretty difficult to care about said job, and I'll move on quickly.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#83

Post by closewith »

justin66 wrote: post #54
closewith wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, work is effort expended to achieve a result. Whether it's paid or not is irrelevant, and many people work harder for free than they ever do in employment, because the incentives are right.

> Whether it's paid or not is irrelevant When someone contemplates the wisdom of an entrepreneur who says he’s going to work until he dies, they’re not worried he might volunteer too much.

That's short-sighted. Most entrepreneurs, once they're financially stable, work for reasons other than money.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#84

Post by laweijfmvo »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #69
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spent my 20s grinding away at getting great at building software. I enjoyed it mostly, but there are definite regrets, esp with tech never being able to shut up about how awesome AI is in killing off any notion of craft. Re: travel: this is one of the big takeaways from the book Die With Zero: travel is much easier when you are younger even if it is more expensive (relative to your assets). Just got back from an Ital…

> even if it is more expensive (relative to your assets) A lot of this is relative to one's standards and objectives. You are certainly right that it is expensive relative to assets in one's youth, but it can still be quite attainable if backpacking, hostels, and street food are options. When we went to Tokyo recently, the room we booked was tiny! The bed was only 6 or so inches away from the walls on each side. But…

years ago i stayed in a capsule in tokyo with shared bath house for something like $20!

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#85

Post by lr4444lr »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #4

> “When I’m on my deathbed, I won’t look back at my life and wish I had worked harder. I’ll look back and wish I spent more time with the people I loved.” I saw a Reddit thread the other day on r/startups or r/entrepreneur where the OP was talking about how they'll be working until the day he or she dies. I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its m…

The loss of work for its centering, routine, mental challenges, socialization across the generations, and sense of accomplishment is harmful to mental and even physical health.

Sure, a construction worker can't be climbing the rafters at 80 years old, but this idea that we just transition to leisure and getting together with friends at a certain point is both fairly novel and of dubious value.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#86

Post by k__ »

Haul4ss wrote: post #30
agubelu wrote: post #20

I dislike the word "loyalty" when talking about employment. Loyalty is for your spouse, friends and family. Your relationship with your employer is a contractual one. When it comes to my job, I believe in doing your best possible work, being professional and acting in good faith. I expect to be paid fairly and treated with respect. If this relationship is mutually beneficial, it can go on for a long while. But it's i…

This is a very rich-world view of work. Most people can't just "unilaterally rescind" their employment if they decide they don't like it anymore. I don't disagree with what you're getting at, just understand that loyalty is a necessity to a lot of folks, and I don't think it is because their values are misplaced.

They said "stops beneficial to one party", not that any of the parties stops liking it.

Many people don't like their jobs, that doesn't mean they don't benefit enough from it to pay bills.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#87

Post by k__ »

You should be loyal to your craft, not to your employer.

You might have a job as a developer at some company that could get terminated at any time. Your skills and reputation remain irrespectively.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#88

Post by lr4444lr »

> Do not buy into the bullshit hype of “hustle” to appease your employer

I completely disagree here. Hustling under the right leadership is as good for you as for the business. You learn the industry, hone your skills, network, and improve your understanding of the interactions between different business functions. IME, people who go above and beyond and produce value beyond just doing what their immediate supervisor tells them - even challenging them in the right ways for a better outcome - tend to survive through layoffs too. You can make work a reasonable part of your life, but still try your damndest during those hours.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#89

Post by TimPC »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #19
maccard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the middle ground is healthy. I'm in my early 30's, I have a job that I get to "create" in (I make video games). > I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its many sights and wonders? Had they already experienced everything good there is to experience in this one lifetime that they were so bored of it that they would prefer to work instead? H…

> "I can't wait until I'm 50 and I can finally start doing all those things". I had an uncle pass last year and he was only 30 years older than me. He had already retired and a multi-millionaire in assets. Yet my aunt refused to retire because of a high paying job with little actual work. She kept working. When he passed, the family asked me to put together a montage video and shared their photos with me spanning his…

I think it depends a lot on your finances though. If you come from a rich family and have parental support by all means it is amazing to travel young. But if your travel budget is coming out of your downpayment on your house that could easily be the difference between buying before house prices got out of control or not. For example if you could have bought in 2013 without travel and it takes you till 2015 to save up a 2013 downpayment but in 2015 house prices have gone up and your downpayment needs to be larger and it takes more time, etc.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#90

Post by apercu »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #4

> “When I’m on my deathbed, I won’t look back at my life and wish I had worked harder. I’ll look back and wish I spent more time with the people I loved.” I saw a Reddit thread the other day on r/startups or r/entrepreneur where the OP was talking about how they'll be working until the day he or she dies. I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its m…

I would like to have some meaningful part-time work when I retire.

Sure, I garden, landscape, play with my tractor, spend more time playing guitar than any other hobby and go to the gym 3 times a week, but I would still want some sort of additional "purpose" to keep me engaged with society (I'm not exactly an introvert but left purely to my own devices I tend to entertain myself pretty solitarily).

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