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EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu

31–40 of 85 posts

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#31

I have mixed feeling about this. On one side, it is good to have consumer friendly regulation like manufacturers to be forced to support right to repair. But on the opposite side, lots of bullshit requirements again like the energy labelling, that will do that we have less products, mostly from big actors only, and more expensive due the then useless regulation barrier. And the mixed feeling is stronger for things li…

Agreed, in general I'm disappointed that so many government regulations (on both sides of both ponds, this is one issue that's pretty universal) are just simplistic hard coded numbers. Even with carve outs I think that's much worse vs more focused, thoughtful reactive criteria. Like:

>And the mixed feeling is stronger for things like manufacturers that needs to provide support for the os for 5 years and more.

What I'd have liked to see for this (and still would) is that support is tied to control, ie, as a principle power being intimately linked with responsibility, not some ""big tech"" or not thing either. So maybe have some absolute bare minimum like 3 months unless bankrupt, but then link it to whether product owners are able to install alternate OS, access the source code etc. If a manufacturer wants to throw out some hardware and also give me all the source code and any certificate store access required for me and/or the community of fellow owners to alter and maintain it as we wish, then I'm completely fine with a very short (or possibly even zero) required support period on the software side. Conversely if a company (like Apple) wishes to profit by locking down a device very heavily, then they should also be forced to pay for all support costs for as long as they do. And I'd make that indefinite also, like, Apple would NEVER be able to stop supporting a device that they didn't at least offer alternative OS install capability for. If they wanted to EOL an iPhone after 7-10 years, they'd have to unlock the bootloader as part of that.

IMO that would most properly align all the incentives and then let various players small to large experiment with the best solutions, and for consumers to react in turn. Full open do-anything and walled gardens would both be allowed, but no profiting while externalizing the downsides.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#32
post #20

I have mixed feeling about this. On one side, it is good to have consumer friendly regulation like manufacturers to be forced to support right to repair. But on the opposite side, lots of bullshit requirements again like the energy labelling, that will do that we have less products, mostly from big actors only, and more expensive due the then useless regulation barrier. And the mixed feeling is stronger for things li…

I was going to agree with you but then I remembered that while I don't care about energy labels when I decide to buy a phone or tablet... ... I know far less about, say, refrigerators. So last time i needed one i bought the one with the most economic energy label from the ones I liked.

I don’t see why energy labels move the needle for phones and tablets, considering battery life is already a highly maximized and sought after feature.

An appliance plugged into a wall is different as most people have no easy way to discern energy usage. But they are reminded everyday of their mobile’s energy efficiency.

And no one is going to use a black and white mobile to save 100kWh per year.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#33

I have mixed feeling about this. On one side, it is good to have consumer friendly regulation like manufacturers to be forced to support right to repair. But on the opposite side, lots of bullshit requirements again like the energy labelling, that will do that we have less products, mostly from big actors only, and more expensive due the then useless regulation barrier. And the mixed feeling is stronger for things li…

I mean just look at Fairphone they already implemented (most) of this without being forced to. Also even without this regulation its pretty hard to compete in this space anyway.

And I think 5 years of software updates should be achievable if Qualcomm, Google, etc are more supportive of manufacturers.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#35
post #28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tariffs on Chinese EVs are very unserious at the same time as subsidies are being withdrawn while the alleged deadline for phaseout of ICE is still in place. VW showed which side they were going to bet on with Dieselgate and should get no further sympathy.

I wonder how much charging infrastructure China has built inside their borders for their cheap EVs. In the EU, everyone who could afford an EV probably already has one. The rest will buy what they can afford and can charge.

A lot of people also just keep their cars for a decade or more, and buy cheaper used cars mainly-- you can not expect such a market to completely switch in a fraction of product lifetime (especially while new tech is still rapidly improving).

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#37
post #3

Nice page! I'm extremely happy about efforts like this. You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place. Having standardized chargers for phones and laptops is SUPER nice and would never have happened without intervention IMO. The only equivalent for US "useful, average-citizen friend…

Can you share some equivalent Japanese laws that make the world a better place, or maybe Australian ones? Or are there none? :(

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#38
This is just me thinking this through and is not a claim to be authoritative whatsoever.

The average power draw of a cell phone is what, 4 watts? 6 watts? Lets say 10W, which is silly high (most can only charge at around 20W for an hour and a charge lasts at least 12 hours, but lets just take a high number.) At 10W constant draw it would consume 87,600Wh per year. Lets round up for inefficiencies and call it 100kWh. (That's about $11/yr of electricity where I live, about 3 cents per day but this isn't my point.)

(For reference, my Pixel 8 Pro gets 16+ hours on average if I don't put it on my wireless charger, and it's battery is only 5000mAh, which my calculations say is around 1W of average draw. This matches what I see on the display on my charging cord.)

An average person in Norway consumes 24000kWh per year (according to wikipedia. Someone in Spain would be about 5000kWh). This regulation will cut their cell phone power usage by about 1/3 (based on the quoted estimated savings and the # of people in the EU, but I don't believe these numbers), so maybe about 33kWh per year (and remember this is using absurdly over estimated numbers). That is approximately a 1/1000 reduction in power usage (or 1/200 in spain). Using realistic numbers I don't see how it's possible to anticipate any reduction in energy usage, in fact it would be a huge increase if all phones only met the minimum required in this regulation.

I will wager that the cost of compliance will slightly increase, however. This is a benefit to established manufacturers as their cost per device for compliance is low, and they already have mechanisms to ensure compliance and testing, and relationships with regulators. It's a nontrivial increase in the already significant barrier to entry to everyone else, even if their devices easily comply.

Cell phones and other mobile devices already compete on energy efficiency being one of the primary factors driving purchasing decisions (in fact it's more potent competition than that, since it's battery life). There is no meaningful initial price/efficiency tradeoff like some other products, such as mini splits or other HVAC where people might be 'cheap' up front but then it costs them more over time due to less efficiency, in fact the more efficient a phone is the cheaper it can be to manufacture because you can install a smaller battery. This compounds the benefit of being efficient. Based just on my own intuition, I would predict that the anti-competitive barriers to entry this sets up will lead to a slight reduction in competition in the market, which will actually let manufacturers invest less in energy efficiency (and every other aspect of their phones) while maintaining their market share.

I predict that this regulation actually causes phones to become slightly less energy efficient than they would otherwise. Worse, if there were no regulation phones and other devices would likely become significantly more efficient than this regulation requires regardless, so the regulation just imposes a cost. Worse, there isn't a problem here to begin with, the energy usage of these devices does not show up in the data of total energy use unless you scroll all the way to the bottom, these devices are already using less power than a single LED light bulb turned on for 4 hours a day. If they just redirected the costs of compliance with this stupid regulation to something effective, such as adding to the subsidy on hyper-efficient mini split systems, it could save substantial amount of energy and push forwards electrification goals.

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#39
Quick reminder that when alarmists talk about "data center energy use" they are almost always quoting aggregate statistics that encompass mobile networks. The mobile networks are actually using half of the aggregate power[1]. So how do these regulations address that aspect of the problem. This press release claims to save 2.2TWh/a by 2030 which is less than one percent of the energy used by transmission networks today.

1: https://www.iea.org/energy-system/buildings/data-centres-and...

Re: EU Energy labelling will apply to phones and tablets from June 2025

#40
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much charging infrastructure China has built inside their borders for their cheap EVs. In the EU, everyone who could afford an EV probably already has one. The rest will buy what they can afford and can charge.

A lot of people also just keep their cars for a decade or more, and buy cheaper used cars mainly-- you can not expect such a market to completely switch in a fraction of product lifetime (especially while new tech is still rapidly improving).

Not even China will switch overnight. I'm asking if China is better at EV incentives.

I'm driving a 15 year old car :) I want to replace it some time in the next 2-3 years. Right now I wouldn't consider an EV or PHEV because I don't think I can charge one regularly and the price premium is not worth it to me, especially compared to the hassle.

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