It boggles the mind that Apple and Google don’t take meaningful steps to combat this. Is it really that hard of a problem or do they just not care?
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UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
11–20 of 39 posts
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#12I think one of the easiest way to combat this to make getting phone numbers harder. For example, you need to be a citizen of that country or have a business or other legitimate reason to get one. After that you can just block all foreign phone numbers. Also, maybe a warning in OS level for remote access tools or block them by default.
Anyone can spoof any phone number, right? Seems like that's on the telco standards.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#13It boggles the mind that Apple and Google don’t take meaningful steps to combat this. Is it really that hard of a problem or do they just not care?
It's a hard problem.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#14I think one of the easiest way to combat this to make getting phone numbers harder. For example, you need to be a citizen of that country or have a business or other legitimate reason to get one. After that you can just block all foreign phone numbers. Also, maybe a warning in OS level for remote access tools or block them by default.
I get like 7-8 spam texts and calls a day from numbers within my own state. I suspect that something like hashcash or adding some small fee (like $1, that is returned to the spender if the recipient doesn't reply "STOP") would pretty much shut down these spam calls. Please do not suggest these terrible solutions that make SMS/calls an unreliable transport, when it is just a sybil problem.
I know this won't solve it, but it's a low-hanging fruit, they need to delete that stupid feature where you can receive SMS from an email address.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#15Spam and scam calls are an absolute menace in India, to the point that the prime minister went on record warning citizens about some of them (there was a wave of "digital arrest" scams recently). The authorities are generally trying to crack down, but it's a case of too little too late; they should've started at least a decade and a half ago when things were just starting to pick up, but corruption and lack of technical proficiency in most government departments meant that it all just grew unchecked.
There are tools though: Google is generally good at identifying most spam, there's also Truecaller (filled with ads and a privacy nightmare). You also have avenues for sending complaints (most providers have do-not-disturb complaint forms right within their apps, and there's a system called Chakshu which the government has introduced). But it'll be a very long time till domestic scam calls get reined in, and unless there is significant internal and international pressure, outgoing scam calls to other nations will still keep going on.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#16It boggles the mind that Apple and Google don’t take meaningful steps to combat this. Is it really that hard of a problem or do they just not care?
It is called pig butchering. Your online girlfriend teaches you how to invest in crypto. Both you and her get incredibly rich and you pour more and more money into your investment. Until one day you learn everything was a lie. Your online girlfriend. The riches you supposedly earned. The answer for these scam centers and for ransomware is to declare any nation that harbors them as state sponsors of terror. https://cy…
Pit butchering scams are a subtype of scams.
The core issue with pig butchering is that the harm process is distributed across platforms, so there’s no single view of the problem at a platform level.
This hasn’t stopped efforts to improve knowledge and coordination, but the next barrier to action is in geographical location, and out right kidnap of people to man the fake accounts.
But now, to make matters worse, there’s LLMs which can simply fake humans at scale.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#17Would a simple solution, like demanding that anyone who isn't in your contact list pay a relatively substantial amount (like $5, or even $0.5), in order to contact you, and you are the one that decides if to return that money when the call ends or to keep it for yourself (send it to a charity/pay taxes).
This would also cripple a lot of business in advertising, but not a big loss, if someone really wants to talk to you, they can pay the price.
What am I missing? Why would this not work? What side effects on other industries could there be?
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#18I think one of the easiest way to combat this to make getting phone numbers harder. For example, you need to be a citizen of that country or have a business or other legitimate reason to get one. After that you can just block all foreign phone numbers. Also, maybe a warning in OS level for remote access tools or block them by default.
Anyone can spoof any phone number, right? Seems like that's on the telco standards.
Indeed. All these issues with scam calls from spoofed numbers should lead to BCP38, but for phones. Someone calling shouldn’t be allowed to set their own number in the first place, but we could start by limiting country codes. There’s no reason that a phone should be able to spoof the country of origin. If you want a phone number in France, you can go get a number from a French provider.
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#19I think one of the easiest way to combat this to make getting phone numbers harder. For example, you need to be a citizen of that country or have a business or other legitimate reason to get one. After that you can just block all foreign phone numbers. Also, maybe a warning in OS level for remote access tools or block them by default.
I get like 7-8 spam texts and calls a day from numbers within my own state. I suspect that something like hashcash or adding some small fee (like $1, that is returned to the spender if the recipient doesn't reply "STOP") would pretty much shut down these spam calls. Please do not suggest these terrible solutions that make SMS/calls an unreliable transport, when it is just a sybil problem.
I had (have?) the idea that one could have an off-band signal that "Yes it's actually my number trying to call your number". Anyone who wants to steal it, feel free, but I have a feeling Google/Apple could implement it and eat your lunch.
So before I call the number (say the phone number is 9), my phone app will log into a central server and say "My number is 7, and I'm trying to call 9". The phone 9 will check the server and see that "Oh I'm getting a call from 7" and then ask the server, "Is 7 trying to call me?", and will get a confirmation.
There'll be different warnings if 7 currently doesn't have data connection, or got a new phone and hasn't logged on for a while, or 7 doesn't even have an account on the server. If 7 has recently pinged the server and then tries to call 9 without notifying the server, the server can say "I can't see any sign from 7 that he's trying to call you." then 9's phone can warn her. There'll be different warnings for different situations.
And we can use certificates and do tricks like not needing an account for each phone number, but send a message "Yes this number from Microsoft tech support is actually trying to reach you.", signed with Microsoft's certificate. But then the scammers will get a certificate for "Micro5oft", etc.
Looking forward to a reply moaning about centralized authorities monitoring people's calls. Although as I write this I realize telcos can do this already. Perhaps it can be a P2P solution...
Re: UN says scam call centers are epidemic and expanding globally
#20Recently bought some Chinese stocks. Minute later received robocall from UK number to add them on WhatsApp. Call on the number saved at the broker. Parents are receiving calls in their native language from a native speaker regarding various investment accounts. This whole thing is fully automated with global outreach, with personal data leaking like liquids from 20 years old beater car. Meanwhile legit banks are sending emails and SMS with messages like "be careful with scammers contacting you over email and SMS". It's one big psychotic chaos.