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Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

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Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? I've heard this before but don't understand what it actually implies. Like, why can't 2 things meaningfully be half a Planck distance apart?

It's just that it's physically impossible to measure such small scales. To probe a smaller scale you have to put more energy into a volume (roughly, because you have to force particles closer together), and at some point you have to put so much energy into such a small volume that it becomes a black hole, then any more energy you put in will just make the black hole bigger. So there seems to be a fundamental limit to…

Here's a summary of my layman's understanding, which could be wrong.

To my understanding there's nothing special about it except once you get to quantum field theory, and specifically spin-2 particles, which are the ones that hypothetically carry gravity (i.e. gravitons). (They're hypothetically gravitons because mathematically they result in conservation of the "stress-energy tensor", which is the same thing that Einstein's field equations give. And this isn't coincidence; it's because both are second-order field theories preserving Lorentz transforms aka special relativity). But notably if you only get through non-relativistic quantum mechanics, there's nothing special that happens at Planck length.

Planck length becomes special in QFT because at Planck length, the feedback (my force on you affects your force on me affects my force on you etc) of the quantum field mathematically explodes in something called "UV divergence". Notably, this also happens for other force carriers, not just gravitons, but a mathematical trick called Renormalization fixes that. Renormalization is based on shady techniques like assuming the sum of all whole numbers is -1/12. (IIUC this is a fairly straightforward pure mathematical result from complex analysis, required to ensure consistency of Fourier transforms for infinite sequences, known as analytic continuation / Riemann zeta function. Of course it makes no sense that nature should behave that way, but one day some physicists thought "let's try this weird math" and it matched experiments). However that technique only works for lower-spin fields (E&M, weak, strong) because the feedback is linear, hence sum(1+2+3+...). But in spin-2 fields the feedback is (quadratic? exponential?), and the same trick still gives an infinite result.

Ultimately one could say this is the only thing standing in the way of a complete theory of quantum gravity. If we could get the math for gravitons not to blow up at tiny scales, we'd be done (experimental verification notwithstanding). String theory is one attempt: "Let's say there are no point particles, only strings, and this problem goes away". Other approaches exist too. But ultimately right now, there's no way to say for sure whether sub-Planck exists, doesn't exist, exists in some ways but not in others, or whether all of physics is wrong and we have to start over.

A quick addendum: Planck energy is approximately the chemical energy in a tank of gas. Planck mass is about that of an amoeba (so an antimatter bomb made out of an amoeba would explode like a tank of gas (Hiroshima was 0.6 grams of mass), a photon with that energy would have a Planck-length wavelength, and an amoeba-mass black hole is Planck-length). Given there's nothing overly special about Planck energy or mass, my money is on there being nothing special about Planck length either.

Hopefully at least some of the above is correct.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#62
post #60
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I was hoping for something a bit more authoritative than a reddit comment being copy/pasted to HN (e.g. an actual retraction, or a paper directly disputing the findings), but I'm guessing most of the community just ignored the paper due to the history of the author.

That comment has exactly what you're asking for: Links to papers that show there is no evidence for rotation asymmetry. The very first article linked in that Reddit comment is a scientific publication from the Royal Society with the title "No evidence for anisotropy in galaxy spin directions".

>That comment has exactly what you're asking for

No, it doesn't.

I was hoping to read something that addressed this specific paper. All of those links are papers published before Lior Shamir's paper was published.

The comment I originally replied to said "people pointed out he cherry-picked results". I thought "people" might be "scientists" and they might have pointed it out in a subsequent paper or something.

Thanks though.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#63

“We show that a Gödel inspired slowly rotating dark-fluid variant of the concordance model resolves this tension…” Gödel wait what? I thought of him as “only” the logician who killed Hiblert’s dreams and caused people to question the very foundations of mathematics. Dude then took up physics as a hobby and trolled Einstein by discovering closed time-like curves?

Godel and Einstein were actually quite close.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just that it's physically impossible to measure such small scales. To probe a smaller scale you have to put more energy into a volume (roughly, because you have to force particles closer together), and at some point you have to put so much energy into such a small volume that it becomes a black hole, then any more energy you put in will just make the black hole bigger. So there seems to be a fundamental limit to…

Here's a summary of my layman's understanding, which could be wrong. To my understanding there's nothing special about it except once you get to quantum field theory, and specifically spin-2 particles, which are the ones that hypothetically carry gravity (i.e. gravitons). (They're hypothetically gravitons because mathematically they result in conservation of the "stress-energy tensor", which is the same thing that Ei…

Cool stuff. I don't know enough about QFT to evaluate it, but involvment in basic physics of the zeta function to evaluate diverging series and so on is something really amazing. This video discusses L-functions and QFT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OxVsVUesSc

About the Planck length, while the length itself might not be physically significant, black holes are definitely physically significant, and according to the current thinking there will be some smallest length that can be probed before what you're looking at becomes a black hole. I guess I was lazily assuming that would be around the Planck length. I would have to look into it more to come up with a calculation for that

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#65
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment has a good summary of the debunking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43540635 It's unfortunately rare for this kind of straightforward falsification to make it into publications aimed at the general reader. "A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on," as they say.

Thanks. I was hoping for something a bit more authoritative than a reddit comment being copy/pasted to HN (e.g. an actual retraction, or a paper directly disputing the findings), but I'm guessing most of the community just ignored the paper due to the history of the author.

Download the Pubpeer extension. There's often blips from someone.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#66
post #35
post #4

> All objects within our universe rotate, including planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies, and galaxy clusters. Moreover, black holes, spherically symmetric objects with horizons, display near maximal rotation as presented by Daly (2019). The idea that everything revolves [...] naturally extends to the whole universe, as hinted by recent claims of anisotropic Hubble expansion in X-ray observations by Migkas et al.…

If spacetime rotates, does that imply there being a centre of the universe?

There is. The center of the observable universe is earth. Every alien civilization will see themselves at the center of thier observable universe. And each will observe the same rotation in faraway objects. Relativity makes things strange.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#67
post #62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment has exactly what you're asking for: Links to papers that show there is no evidence for rotation asymmetry. The very first article linked in that Reddit comment is a scientific publication from the Royal Society with the title "No evidence for anisotropy in galaxy spin directions".

> That comment has exactly what you're asking for No, it doesn't. I was hoping to read something that addressed this specific paper. All of those links are papers published before Lior Shamir's paper was published. The comment I originally replied to said "people pointed out he cherry-picked results". I thought "people" might be "scientists" and they might have pointed it out in a subsequent paper or something. Thank…

The chronology or papers isn’t important here.

The cherry picking is clear from the difference in results not their timing.

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#68
post #43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If spacetime rotates, does that imply there being a centre of the universe?

Wouldn't the center be the Big Bang and the 3D Universe at the current time (if Relativity lets me write about a current time) be the 3D surface of the 4D sphere (or spheroid) that the Big Bang is creating by keeping to expand?

the big bang happened everywhere

Re: Can rotation solve the Hubble Puzzle?

#69
post #35
post #4

> All objects within our universe rotate, including planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies, and galaxy clusters. Moreover, black holes, spherically symmetric objects with horizons, display near maximal rotation as presented by Daly (2019). The idea that everything revolves [...] naturally extends to the whole universe, as hinted by recent claims of anisotropic Hubble expansion in X-ray observations by Migkas et al.…

If spacetime rotates, does that imply there being a centre of the universe?

If everything started from a singularity that had a axiomatically uniform rotation, you might not be able to assess the center "axis" based from inside spacetime itself
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