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Getting forked by Microsoft

philiplaine.com

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Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#791
post #169

As a maintainer, it is my duty to come across as unbiased and factual as possible i disagree with that. factual? sure, but unbiased? why? it's your project, and you have every right to be biased towards it. on the contrary, i expect you to, and i actually believe that not being biased towards your own project is very difficult so that i don't expect many people to be able to not be biased.

[deleted]

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already exists: https://polyformproject.org/licenses/small-business/1.0.0/ https://writing.kemitchell.com/2022/01/26/Big-Time-2.0.0

These are not open source licenses; they violate the open source definition.

So? I never said they were for Open Source (as defined by some libertarian crusty hacker), and the parent comment never asked for it. Why do people like you always jump in, screaming "It's not Open Source!"?

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#793

Hi Philip, I'm Lachlan from the Cloud Native Ecosystem team at Microsoft. Our team works in the cloud native open-source community with a goal of being great open-source collaborators in these projects and communities, and I’m sorry that this happened. We appreciate your leadership and collaboration on Spegel and see your project solving a real challenge for the cloud native community. I wanted to thank you for your…

Not good enough. All previous commits still infringe Spegel's copyright, given they are still available and distributed. I would assume the point release also infringes copyright. You are Microsoft. You can do better.

Very silly, they can't rewrite the commit history nor would it be proper to update old packaged releases.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we failed to give you the attribution you, that was a mistake and I’m sorry. In other words: there exists some responsible person at Microsoft who violated the copyright (yes, removing the attribution is also a copyright violation!) for Microsoft. In consideration how Microsoft has been treating copyyright violators for decades, if Microsoft does not give this responsible person the same crual treatment, it sho…

> it means that all of Microsoft's software now (spiritually!) will become public domain. You have said many things like this in this thread. I don't think you understand how laws or courts or legal fees work. Good luck defending yourself against MS's army of lawyers during your court proceedings though!

> I don't think you understand how laws or courts or legal fees work. Good luck defending yourself against MS's army of lawyers during your court proceedings though!

I have no hope that the courts currently (!) agree with this. But let us spread the gospel so that as many people as possible know how Microsoft's "real" stance on copyright is. If a lot of people become aware of this and this truth stays in lots of people's heads for a sufficiently long time, the public opinion might change so that juries (representing the public opinion in courts) will indeed begin to judge against Microsoft in the way that I described.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a good case for applying Hanlon's Razor. The person that did the forking and removal of copyright text may simply not know that it needed to stay there. I would love to know what processes MS is considering to prevent this in the future as well as what kind of auditing might be done to look at other projects that started as forks.

> The person that did the forking and removal of copyright text may simply not know that it needed to stay there. That person never learned what plagiarism is throughout their entire academic career, much less once they landed at Microsoft?

There are other possibilities, for example, the person may have thought that they were complying with the MIT licence by releasing the new project under the MIT licence too + including a mention of the original project in the README.

This, of course, is incorrect, and a cursory read of the very short licence text would show it to be incorrect.

But I, too, am strongly favouring Hanlon's razor.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#796
post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not good enough. All previous commits still infringe Spegel's copyright, given they are still available and distributed. I would assume the point release also infringes copyright. You are Microsoft. You can do better.

Very silly, they can't rewrite the commit history nor would it be proper to update old packaged releases.

What do you mean they can't rewrite the commits? They can, they should, and it's really easy to do so. As for the packages, they should be taken offline.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#797
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Viruses are things that latch onto other things without their permission . If you choose to build off of GPL code then yes, you must preserve the GPL license. There's an important difference. It's actually the same as any other copyrighted code (and in the US, all code is automatically copyrighted and restricted). You cannot just take code and use it in your project. GPL code is nothing special.

It is very easy to accidently use a GPL library without knowing it, especially if it is a dependency of a dependency and you aren't using a license scanner.

It’s very easy to do all sorts of incorrect stuff if you totally ignore your responsibilities.

If you're not redistributing the GPL library, then it doesn't matter. If you are, then there are all sorts of other licenses which come with the same (or greater) headaches.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point being made is that the executives are either responsible for the company, or they're not actually running the company at all. Like this isn't some tragedy of the commons situation. This isn't some situation where the company is a cooperative confederation of equal partners. Either shit rolls uphill, or you don't have leadership at all. You don't get to pass the buck on criticism because you made a d…

> or they're not actually running the company at all Executives are not micro-managing day-to-day implementation decisions of every team, no. They set broad strategic goals, the management layers below them decide how to best operationalize those goals, and the layers below those middle managers make specific implementation decisions to execute those operations. If you want to think of this as "not actually running t…

What initiative will executive at microsoft take now that this post became popular?

No initiative? Then it's 100% their fault.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#799

Hi Philip, I'm Lachlan from the Cloud Native Ecosystem team at Microsoft. Our team works in the cloud native open-source community with a goal of being great open-source collaborators in these projects and communities, and I’m sorry that this happened. We appreciate your leadership and collaboration on Spegel and see your project solving a real challenge for the cloud native community. I wanted to thank you for your…

Hey how about doing the right thing first time next time instead of waiting until you get ass-blasted on social media?

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#800
This happened with me and Google (Antbot/Cellbots stuff, circa 2011). The difference is that the Google person in charge of the fork of my project was actively hostile to me. He told me that I was just a hobbyist and that my product didn't exist.

So I put a PCB of my product in his hand (it had some through-hole components), and squeezed it really hard, and asked him "If it doesn't exist, why is it making you bleed?"

All this at a meeting/presentation where my bot was literally running circles around theirs because mine worked and theirs stalled.

I think I have video of this somewhere, but there's no audio.

The guy left Google a year later, tried to sell bots independently, and folded. I on the other hand am still here.

It was a bit of a weird interaction overall. Why would someone say "this doesn't exist" while staring at it? I figured that haptic feedback would help with their solipsism at the time.

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