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Pope Francis has died

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#371
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"telling Ukraine to "have the courage of the white flag"." Perhaps he should have told Russia to have the "courage" to stop murdering people.

>Pope begs Putin to end 'spiral of violence and death'

https://web.archive.org/web/20230326034459/https://www.reute...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#372
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JPII was also elected in a very different world. And he played a big moral role in taking down iron curtain and getting Eastern Europe back Europe. Meanwhile Francis was quite the opposite. Especially as seen in the light of Russian aggression against Ukraine. For much of Eastern Europe that was like 180 turn. At least here both church goers and not seem to despise Francis while JPII has a warm place in the hearts bo…

Can you elaborate on what you mean here? You seem to be alluding to a stance that Francis had towards Russia that I am not familiar with.

[deleted]

Re: Pope Francis has died

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With no opinion one way or another on the pope.. In the modern world this is a weird criteria to judge people on. I assume like every modern politician, he doesn't write his own speeches. A quite google search seems to confirm it https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/does-the-pope-write-his-o...

Who cares? He said it. The words are his responsibility. If his speech had advocated for grinding orphans into a nutritious paste, we wouldn’t be defending him on the basis that he didn’t write those words. He chose to read them and give them his official backing.

That's because we mean "credit for how well-written the thing is", whereas you mean "credit for agreeing with the meaning".

Re: Pope Francis has died

#374
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illustrating perfectly how wide this conversation really is, as we don't even have consensus about what "knowledge" means :)

We do! https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/knowledg...

The Cambridge Dictionary has its own internal consensus, true, but there are so many more ways people understand that specific word :)

Wikipedia even has it's own page with some of the various definitions people use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_knowledge

Then we have implicit/explicit knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_knowledg...) where some people assume one of them when they say "knowledge", others refer to the other.

In fact, there is an entire scientific field to understanding what "knowledge" actually is/means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

So yeah, it isn't as simple as looking it up in a dictionary, unfortunately.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#375

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis... > According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ. Always struck me as a simple man and that likely contributed to people liking him more when compared to his predecessors. RIP.

>> According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ.

As a kinda-sorta Christian (raised Catholic), I've long admired the Jewish approach to the Mourner's Kaddish prayer said when a loved one dies: It's not about the deceased, nor even about death — it's about G-d. It starts out (in English translation): "Glorified and sanctified be God’s great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will."

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/text-of-the-mourner...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#376
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind explaining your issues with Kirill? Haven't really been paying attention. Wasn't he the one who got Russia into defending persecuted Christians wherever (Syria etc)?

The man declared Putin's war to be a literal crusade against the West: > From a spiritual and moral point of view, the special military operation is a Holy War, in which Russia and its people, defending the single spiritual space of Holy Rus', fulfill the mission of the "Restrainer", protecting the world from the onslaught of globalism and the victory of the West that has fallen into Satanism. > After the end of the…

He also said that russian men who die fighting in ukraine are guaranteed salvation. In orthodox theology this sort of thing has historically been recognized as a straightforward heresy. We do not claim to know in advance who will be saved, or by what specific acts. Not even bishops or metropolitans. So even from a strictly orthodox perspective he is dangerously divisive and has broken from one of our most important traditions.

(The recognition of saints is a little different, happening always after their death and depending on some degree of regional consensus. It's sloppy but whatever, it is actually not as similar as it might look.)

Re: Pope Francis has died

#377
post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

It always seems weird and ignorant for people to be labeling Catholic bishops as “left-wing” or “right-wing” or “liberal/progressive” or “conservative”. Those are all political terms for politicians and their platforms or parties. They do not translate to Catholic doctrines or teachings. Y’all are simply parroting what the lamestream media wants to impose, a political veneer on non-politicians who are shepherds, past…

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/study-liberal-us-priests-fa...

This is a Catholic media group. It uses the words as above. Think Karl Rahner or Yves Congar.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#378
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.

Since I see a lot of people commenting on this topic, I would like to offer a different perspective. Pope JPII was for my southern European social democratic Catholic family much more polarizing than Pope Francis. Pope Francis had politics that are mainstream and not at all controversial in my part of the world. Whereas JPII was perceived as the guy who was buddies with Reagan and Bush and a general supporter of Amer…

As an outsider it sounds like both were in the current overton window of the power systems at the time.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

Many Catholics I know were absolutely shaken by this Pope, and were absolutely not supporters of the man. They thought he was too liberal and too modern.

That sucks, because if you’re catholic and you _dont_ support the pope…you’re not really a catholic

Re: Pope Francis has died

#380

A man has died, that is sad. Under his watch he did not move the church to fully acknowledge or deal with the historical and widespread abuses the organization he led was involved with. He had opportunity to be the leader to bring the organization around and he did not. Let's all hope his replacement will.

Not only that, but he actively made it worse by protecting abusers. McCarrick, Rupnik, Zanchetta, and many more. It really makes me sick to see so many people speaking well of Pope Francis. He is an enabler and a vindictive hypocrite.
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