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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#361

Post by boredhedgehog »

kashunstva wrote: post #302
lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

> The pope’s threat of physical intervention himself seems at odds with the teachings of his own faith, too, as I understand them. Turn the other cheek, and all.

The quote in question talks about your cheek, not your mother's or anyone else's. In many circumstances, you're not as free to forego the defense of others as you are your own.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#362

Post by code_for_monkey »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #346
code_for_monkey wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Where do you live? How much of your money and land are you willing to surrender to me? I think there's a real argument that it's the right thing to do.

if you showed up to my house with a gun and said "give me your living room or die" I'd probably do it, yeah. See the thing is, youre not at my house and you dont have a gun so the analogy doesn't work.

You should do it. Show up to my house with 6 of your friends and a tank, and then when you say "give me your living room or die" and then when I point out "this is bad, you shouldnt do this" you'll just leave? You'll realize the errors of your ways and go "you know, I was ready to kill for this but now I think I just won't".

Lets take this even further, youre openly threatening to kill me for my house. If my neighbors are going "hold on! Don't give in! Heres a gun, you got this!" are they helping or are they getting me killed? Do you think thats whats going to happen, or do you think the neighbors are saying "this psycho is going to kill you, give them what they want".

It doesnt work.

edit: this got flagged? why? Its pretty benign

Re: Pope Francis has died

#363

Post by olivierestsage »

lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

I'm not a Christian, but one of the main questions I have, reading this, is whether Francis would have had the same reaction if Catholics had been the ones doing the massacring after their faith was insulted. Something tells me that he wouldn't, and I think that's the most troubling part.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#364

Post by ByThyGrace »

usrusr wrote: post #141
vintagedave wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From his statement yesterday: > May the principle of humanity never fail to be the hallmark of our daily actions. In the face of the cruelty of conflicts that involve defenceless civilians and attack schools, hospitals and humanitarian workers, we cannot allow ourselves to forget that it is not targets that are struck, but persons, each possessed of a soul and human dignity. Yes. I agree with you and hope so too.

"Think of those souls!" reads to me cynically close to "don't think of those who ordered and executed those strikes". Almost like a deliberate distraction. When you turn forgiveness into a carte blanche for serial sin, you're doing Christianity wrong.

I've always interpreted the line of message you refer to as an intent to reach the hearts of those responsible for commanding the violence, including those who assign responsibility to them. And if it did reach, and ellicited the intended emotion, then such violence would simply stop.

(FWIW I'm atheist, always been.)

Re: Pope Francis has died

#365

Post by mantas »

dml2135 wrote: post #355
mantas wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JPII was also elected in a very different world. And he played a big moral role in taking down iron curtain and getting Eastern Europe back Europe. Meanwhile Francis was quite the opposite. Especially as seen in the light of Russian aggression against Ukraine. For much of Eastern Europe that was like 180 turn. At least here both church goers and not seem to despise Francis while JPII has a warm place in the hearts bo…

Can you elaborate on what you mean here? You seem to be alluding to a stance that Francis had towards Russia that I am not familiar with.

He said Ukraine should surrender. To Russia which wants to exterminate Ukraine as a nation, culture and language.

Feel free to google for more details. There were multiple occurrences when he doubled-down on his words after backlash.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#366

Post by agumonkey »

solfox wrote: post #344
swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

A teacher of mine often reminds me that in many cultures—like Japanese and Native American traditions—the role of having an enemy is viewed with a certain respect. Enemies help define us. They challenge us, sharpen us, and push us to grow. Western culture tends to abhor the idea of having enemies, but sometimes, having them simply means you’ve stood for something meaningful—something worth noticing. It seems Pope Fra…

Interesting, it depends on your temper and philosophy. A respected enemy is worth having, but when it devolves into primitive antagonism, less so.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#367

Post by Loughla »

numbers_guy wrote: post #358
swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

Many Catholics I know were absolutely shaken by this Pope, and were absolutely not supporters of the man. They thought he was too liberal and too modern.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#368

Post by throwaway743 »

swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Feel like I just read a eulogy.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#369

Post by moralestapia »

diggan wrote: post #347
timeon wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

Illustrating perfectly how wide this conversation really is, as we don't even have consensus about what "knowledge" means :)

We do!

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/knowledg...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#370

Post by stavros »

fforflo wrote: post #276
Aidevah wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Mytilene a city while the island itself is called Lesvos?

Technically yes, but they're used interchangeably nowdays. Plus, the official transcript mentions "Mytilene" so I wanted to follow that. Although I use Lesvos myself.

Can confirm, I never realized until now that Mytilene is just the city, I've always wondered why we have two names for the island.
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