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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#341

Post by hylaride »

andybak wrote: post #251
fastball wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell is empty, so that is indeed an interesting response from the Pope.

The bible only has sparse and often contradictory references to hell - so it's very difficult to state "what the Bible says about hell" as if there's a unified picture laid out.

I've heard descriptions of hell of everything from the classic "fire and torture" we all know, to it being a total and complete detachment from god (in a disappointed and kicked out of the house by your parents kind of way). It's similar to descriptions of Satin. Everything from the horns and pitchfork all the way down to a "beautiful fallen angel" that he technically was explained to be in the bible.

I've always just assumed the descriptions that work to keep people fearful of leaving the religion as whatever is used at the time (saying this as somebody who is agnostic).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#342

Post by mrangle »

linsomniac wrote: post #274
CKMo wrote: post #45

I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.

"An athiest doesn't believe in 2,000 gods, a Christian doesn't believe in 1,999 gods." -- Ricky Gervais

Ricky is smart, but not smart enough.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#343

Post by probably_wrong »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #278

I'm curious how devout Catholics will perceive it when the leader of their Church dies on their holiest day, which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Will they going to see it as a symbol, a sign, or perhaps some kind of deeper message?

The way I see it, expecting holy days to somehow be "safe" ignores the basis on which the Church was built.

Martyrs were mauled by lions regardless of their work in spreading the word of God. Jesus himself died just like the common thieves next to him. The Catholic Church is built by people, and people sometimes die.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#344

Post by solfox »

swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

A teacher of mine often reminds me that in many cultures—like Japanese and Native American traditions—the role of having an enemy is viewed with a certain respect. Enemies help define us. They challenge us, sharpen us, and push us to grow. Western culture tends to abhor the idea of having enemies, but sometimes, having them simply means you’ve stood for something meaningful—something worth noticing.

It seems Pope Francis had his share of critics—those who opposed his beliefs or feared his vision. And yet, he stood firm and made people think. In that sense, perhaps even his enemies affirmed the impact he was making.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#345

Post by tehlike »

gwbas1c wrote: post #319
kashunstva wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

Edit, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspi... That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview.

> That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview.

This is quickly getting forgotten.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#347

Post by diggan »

timeon wrote: post #338
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

Illustrating perfectly how wide this conversation really is, as we don't even have consensus about what "knowledge" means :)

Re: Pope Francis has died

#348

Post by Telemakhos »

sneak wrote: post #306
lr4444lr wrote: post #293

I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.” [0] [0] https://www.independen…

Our leaders should not be normalizing or condoning responding to words with violence. Such an attitude is abhorrent and shameful.

I think that article lost a bit of nuance somewhere. The Pope was specifically defending the right of Muslims to protest peacefully against deliberate insults to their religion:

> Francis spoke about the Paris attacks while on his way to the Philippines, where around 1,500 Muslims protested yesterday against the depictions of the Prophet in the satirical French magazine Charlie Hebdo. [0]

He also explicitly condemned violence:

> Francis insisted that it was an “aberration” to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence. [0]

So, he wasn't justifying the attack on the Charlie Hebdo office.

[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebd...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#349

Post by diggan »

gwbas1c wrote: post #319
kashunstva wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

Edit, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspi... That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview.

> as an American [...] I don't know if others share that same worldview.

I'm far from American, but have the same "blood", but I think it has nothing to do with being American/Swedish/Spanish/whatever, some people have different personalities, upbringings and strengths/weaknesses simply.

Americans aren't "tougher-skinned" by default or anything, at least I didn't get that experience from interacting with Americans.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#350

Post by whycome »

ckdot wrote: post #95

Why is this posted on HN, even twice? It’s not like other news sources won’t announce this. The pope had its good and bad sides, but in the end we should remind ourselves he’s just a human being. It’s OK for HN to inform about people here, but shouldn’t they be somehow related to any topics HN touches? The popes was just a guy who somehow got popular because of some quite successful religion - but I’d personally pref…

> Why is this posted on HN

This isn't a headline service or newswire. It's a place for discussion too. He was the head of a large institution that has a lot of influence. And the views of the institution on emergent technologies is very much relevant. Those views are greatly shaped by the one at the top for their stint. This post isn't about religion.

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