What my stroke taught me (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#71

Post by the_gipsy » Sat, Apr 19, 2025, 12:11 AM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #67

the_gipsy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that it can be perceived so, which is why I prefaced with "I know it's bad to say this - like telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that...". I am only engaging with commenters who are interested in the conversation, and I'm NOT trying to put anyone down. I just want to get to know more exact meanings and nuances of "I don't have an internal monologue".

If I said "gosh, I can't believe you can actually think at a human speed, having to use words for everything! It's like having to speak out loud when you're reading, so slow! Have you been diagnosed by a professional on how to deal with this obvious handicap?" it would be pretty insulting, yes? Even if I said I wasn't trying to put someone down, because the implicit assumptions baked in to the very statements themsel…

Well, you added a tone there, removed the preventive apology, and added some kind of insult at the end. So I'm not interested in your conversation at all. I've made myself clear. You can go and revisit the other comments to find out about the other side too - you seem to not have understood what "inner monologue" is for most people, by what you are saying.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#72

Post by Baeocystin » Sat, Apr 19, 2025, 12:55 AM UTC

the_gipsy wrote: post #62

whatnow37373 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have locked on to the LLM-viewpoint quite strongly. I don't think I can agree with a lot of your presuppositions. Like "the rules are just there to make the pathfinding efficient" and "language is just an extremely efficient encoding of reality". While very interesting I'd have a hell of time debating those issues in this kind of medium. If you take that as your starting point then I do understand why you…

I'd like to say that I'm not "locked on to the LLM-viewpoint", because I have been interested in the inner monologue / consciousness questions since I was a teenager and by pure chance read a somewhat crazy (and now outdated / partly debunked / never really a peer reviewed science theory) book: [The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976, Julian Jaynes)]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th…

Back when I was taking CogSci classes in the 90's, The Bicameral Mind was introduced as a 'this is almost certainly completely wrong, but it makes a great starting point for a lot of great discussion', and it certainly bore out that way; our discussion groups using selections from the book as a starting point were some of the better ones. I agree with you; even now I think it's an interesting read.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#73

Post by dataviz1000 » Sat, Apr 19, 2025, 2:32 PM UTC

invalidlogin wrote: post #66

dataviz1000 wrote: post #38

I had gone blind in my right eye. There was one person standing before me at the reception in the emergency room arguing with the receptionist because he did not have health insurance (before the ACA). I remember thinking about a post card I saw in Powell's Books on Hawthorn St. in Portland Oregon out of the corner of my eye years earlier that said (paraphrasing) "Be thankful for our enemies, for they give us the opp…

How do you believe calmness helped you? I am interested in that.

I had a dissection of the right carotid artery also with a small aneurysm at the same location as the tear went through the artery wall. There was a massive blood clot dangling in my neck and I went blind because a little piece of this huge blood clot broke off and went into my retina which cut off oxygen to the nerves in my retina, fortunately, because if it had gone further into my brain I likely would have been paralyzed or died. There is about one hour window to clear the blood clot in the eye before permanent damage to the oxygen starved nerves starts. That morning I had been suffering from ischemic strokes.

By being calm I decreased my blood pressure so small pieces of the blood clot in my neck stopped breaking off going into my brain and the whole huge blood clot didn't break off which would have been lethal.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#74

Post by the_gipsy » Sat, Apr 19, 2025, 11:18 PM UTC

shippage wrote: post #63

the_gipsy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the possibility that the brain has not necessarily "concluded" what is being put into words, internally. That the monologue is the conclusion, which we are processing. So we have two points of view, perspectives, or explanations. Yours is that there is some internal-mind code that is NOT language, which we are able to convert instantly to language to communicate with others. Most people then also have an int…

Not the poster you replied to. But maybe I should quickly define what I mean by inner monologue: thoughts in word form, utilizing language. I defined it this way because this is what most people seem to mean when they talk about an inner monologue. In a sense, I do have an inner monologue (or dialogue, or multilogue), it's just not done in words unless I need to crystalize my thoughts into something I can communicate…

Thank you again for posting this. These insights are extremely revealing.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#75

Post by caseyy » Mon, Apr 21, 2025, 10:44 AM UTC

sdwr wrote: post #34

caseyy wrote: post #22

I had a mini stroke that was classed as a TIA at the time, though it later turned out to have some lasting effects. It's a fascinating and overwhelming experience to unlearn reading. To me, the immediate physical aspect was that all text started to look like Star Wars languages. Another aspect was that it was difficult to even concentrate on the text. It no longer stood out from the environment. It was an irrelevant…

Very eloquent description of the tyranny of competence. That's what makes great art sometimes, sharing an obvious truth that everyone overlooks. (Proof of work kinda - difficult to find but easy to prove)

Hah, good point.