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Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

nature.com

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Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#51

Post by jletroui »

CrazyStat wrote: post #37
westurner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plants absorb nitrogen and CO2 from the air and store it in their roots; plants fertilize soil. If you only grow plants with externally-sourced nutrients, that is neither sustainable nor permaculture. Though it may be more efficient to grow without soil; soil depletion isn't prevented by production processes that do not generate topsoil. JADAM is a system developed by a chemicals engineer given what is observed to wo…

The vast majority of plants do not absorb nitrogen from the air. Legumes are the well-known exception.

That, and most of the other nutrients which was needed to grow the vegies ( like phosphates and potassium) are flushed into the toilet. There will be no long term permaculture without cycling those back at some point. Otherwise, organic or not, this will remains an wasteful open loop.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#52

Post by vanattab »

bgnn wrote: post #49
GenerWork wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say that you put a layer of old paper boxes against weeds, does that mean you put the broken down boxes first, and the put the compost on the top? If so, were the seedlings able to sink their roots through the paper boxes and go deeper into the ground? Also, what cover crops did you introduce?

I just put them dry, not broken, and overlapping between the boxes such that they cover the surface fully. And yes, the roots can go down, but weeds cannot go past that easily. The theory is yhe upwards growth is weak but downwards growth of the roots are much stronger and they can puncture a wet paper box. Cover crops: clover, buckwheat and winter rye. Cut before seeding and lay them flat over the surface.

I could see this being the reason your carrots didn't grow well though. If the carrots tap root struggles a bit through the cardboard it could mess up devlopment. I think this is why they say not to transplant carrots. The tap root bottoms out quickly and struggles to recover.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#53

Post by nshkrcom »

johnisgood wrote: post #41
tbrownaw wrote: post #9

> project to assess soil erosion and degradation in vineyards using geographical mapping systems and artificial intelligence (AI). ... AI helps me to design and polish the software codes that I use Is this describing use of something like GitHub copilot?

Or any LLMs.

[dead]

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#54

Post by marginalia_nu »

tbrownaw wrote: post #9

> project to assess soil erosion and degradation in vineyards using geographical mapping systems and artificial intelligence (AI). ... AI helps me to design and polish the software codes that I use Is this describing use of something like GitHub copilot?

Sometimes I get the feeling you gotta tie your research to AI in some tenuous fashion to get research funding.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#55

Post by bgnn »

MortyWaves wrote: post #31
bgnn wrote: post #28

I started my gardening adventure with vegetables in pots. It was perfect, plants gave amazing yield, but required too detailed care and attention every day (or sometimes 2-3 times a day in a hot dry summer day). When I have moved to planting in soil I was shocked how worse the plants are doing. Same tomatoes giving 10-15 kg per plant yield in pots were under 3kg in soil. They got more disease issues, more pests (slug…

That was a great read. This is what I hope to achieve too. I know what you mean about some crops that won’t grow at all, for me, it’s carrots. They are never more than a couple of centimetres long. Deeply frustrating. I’ve tried lots, including making the soil loose, making it compact, adding sand, etc. Also Aloe Vera, absolutely the most frustrating house plants I’ve ever had.

Glad you found it interesting!

It goes so quick with enough care, it's so fascinating. It's impossible to find any place without a lot of worms now.

I have the same issue with carrots. Parsnips are so much more harder though, they just don't grow any root at all!

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#56

Post by bgnn »

vanattab wrote: post #52
bgnn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just put them dry, not broken, and overlapping between the boxes such that they cover the surface fully. And yes, the roots can go down, but weeds cannot go past that easily. The theory is yhe upwards growth is weak but downwards growth of the roots are much stronger and they can puncture a wet paper box. Cover crops: clover, buckwheat and winter rye. Cut before seeding and lay them flat over the surface.

I could see this being the reason your carrots didn't grow well though. If the carrots tap root struggles a bit through the cardboard it could mess up devlopment. I think this is why they say not to transplant carrots. The tap root bottoms out quickly and struggles to recover.

Oh carrots were in a deep compost bed (40cm) first. They only grew like 2cm long roots, nowhere near the box.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#57

Post by hinkley »

GenerWork wrote: post #45
bgnn wrote: post #28

I started my gardening adventure with vegetables in pots. It was perfect, plants gave amazing yield, but required too detailed care and attention every day (or sometimes 2-3 times a day in a hot dry summer day). When I have moved to planting in soil I was shocked how worse the plants are doing. Same tomatoes giving 10-15 kg per plant yield in pots were under 3kg in soil. They got more disease issues, more pests (slug…

When you say that you put a layer of old paper boxes against weeds, does that mean you put the broken down boxes first, and the put the compost on the top? If so, were the seedlings able to sink their roots through the paper boxes and go deeper into the ground? Also, what cover crops did you introduce?

Cardboard doesn’t last long when it’s wet, but long enough to smoother the plants beneath it. There’s something about it that attracts the fungi that break down wood fiber. And the continuous surface allows it to spread quickly.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#58

Post by hinkley »

johnisgood wrote: post #42
MortyWaves wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a great read. This is what I hope to achieve too. I know what you mean about some crops that won’t grow at all, for me, it’s carrots. They are never more than a couple of centimetres long. Deeply frustrating. I’ve tried lots, including making the soil loose, making it compact, adding sand, etc. Also Aloe Vera, absolutely the most frustrating house plants I’ve ever had.

Why do you find Aloe Vera frustrating? I mean, it grows quickly and requires very little maintenance. I suppose that could be seen as "frustrating" in the sense that it needs to be divided or thinned out regularly.

Typical problem with aloe is overwatering. And modern potting soil often is loaded with sphagnum, which stays wet too long, and then when it dries it becomes hydrophobic so watering the plant doesn’t wet the entire soil.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#59

Post by hinkley »

thatcat wrote: post #34
MortyWaves wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a great read. This is what I hope to achieve too. I know what you mean about some crops that won’t grow at all, for me, it’s carrots. They are never more than a couple of centimetres long. Deeply frustrating. I’ve tried lots, including making the soil loose, making it compact, adding sand, etc. Also Aloe Vera, absolutely the most frustrating house plants I’ve ever had.

You're probably over watering the aloe. Try growing carrots using a straw bale with soil added to a v cut in the center as a planter.

Aloe does better in terra cotta pots and cactus mix. Even if you overwater it it won’t stay wet long.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#60

Post by hinkley »

photochemsyn wrote: post #50

Odd that an article on healthy soil completely ignores the major health risk from growing food in regions with a long history of industry and mining, eg most of Europe, northeastern USA, etc. - Heavy metal contamination with species like lead, mercury, cadmium etc. There's a huge literature on the subject, but real-world monitoring is pretty light, certainly doesn't look standard: >"Freslyn Mae, Camata, and Ryna Mae,…

We’ve gone through rounds of working out if the leafy vegetables absorb the heavy metals or if it’s mostly in the dust and last I read we’re back to the latter.

White vinegar is better at cleaning vegetables than so called vegetable soaps, and more importantly the acid dissolves soot and heavy metals.

Gallon bottles of white vinegar are cheap. It’s also good for laundry especially if you have hard water, or a humid climate. Some people put it in the rinse cycle for their dishwasher as well, instead of rinse aid which is hell on your intestines.

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