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Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

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Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#11

Post by noefingway »

SwayamDas wrote: post #7

Here are the primary components that you would require - 1. Organic Matter: Compost and mulch enrich soil and improve structure. 2. Microorganisms: Bacteria, fungi, and mycorrhizae break down organic matter and enhance nutrient uptake. 3. Soil Fauna: Earthworms, insects, and arachnids aerate soil and mix organic matter. 4. Nutrients: Macronutrients (N, P, K) and micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, etc.) are essential for pla…

Item 3 is important in more ways than most people realize. Last year many farmers in my area that planted soybeans early had a problem with slugs eating the sprouting beans and were forced to replant multiple times. This spring I went to a growers conference and heard a presentation by a Prof. Tooker from Penn State Ag about the slug problem, which he has been researching for several years. Turns out that the slug infestation can be directly traced to the use of insecticides used in seed treatments. The insecticides kill beetles (and other beneficial insects) that eat the slugs but don't kill slugs because they aren't insects (they are mollusks). No beetles more slugs. Take away is don't use treated seed. However, standard practice at seed companies is to treat seed with fungicides and insecticides, thus creating a problem rather than solving it.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#12

Post by greenie_beans »

ralusek wrote: post #10

I'm a gardening and landscaping enjoyer, but I am constantly confused about the bordering magical thinking surrounding dirt, among other aspects of growing things. If you look at hydroponics/aeroponics, plants basically need water, light, and fertilizer (N (nitrogen) P (phosphorous) K (potassium), and a few trace minerals). It can be the most synthetic process you've ever seen, and the plants will grow amazingly well…

sure, we can make them grow well in a lab. but a natural system is so much simpler and elegant

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#13

Post by behringer »

noefingway wrote: post #11
SwayamDas wrote: post #7

Here are the primary components that you would require - 1. Organic Matter: Compost and mulch enrich soil and improve structure. 2. Microorganisms: Bacteria, fungi, and mycorrhizae break down organic matter and enhance nutrient uptake. 3. Soil Fauna: Earthworms, insects, and arachnids aerate soil and mix organic matter. 4. Nutrients: Macronutrients (N, P, K) and micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, etc.) are essential for pla…

Item 3 is important in more ways than most people realize. Last year many farmers in my area that planted soybeans early had a problem with slugs eating the sprouting beans and were forced to replant multiple times. This spring I went to a growers conference and heard a presentation by a Prof. Tooker from Penn State Ag about the slug problem, which he has been researching for several years. Turns out that the slug in…

We just need to add a mollusk treatment!

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#14

Post by cameron_b »

noefingway wrote: post #11
SwayamDas wrote: post #7

Here are the primary components that you would require - 1. Organic Matter: Compost and mulch enrich soil and improve structure. 2. Microorganisms: Bacteria, fungi, and mycorrhizae break down organic matter and enhance nutrient uptake. 3. Soil Fauna: Earthworms, insects, and arachnids aerate soil and mix organic matter. 4. Nutrients: Macronutrients (N, P, K) and micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, etc.) are essential for pla…

Item 3 is important in more ways than most people realize. Last year many farmers in my area that planted soybeans early had a problem with slugs eating the sprouting beans and were forced to replant multiple times. This spring I went to a growers conference and heard a presentation by a Prof. Tooker from Penn State Ag about the slug problem, which he has been researching for several years. Turns out that the slug in…

The attempt is surely to solve for an abundance of beetles, but it is often helpful to think of many of these 'problems' as imbalances.

Nature does not work in two-variable equations, and the abundance or absence of an element typically has repercussions that are difficult to study.

An often-cited example of missing the bigger picture in controlling one variable would be the Chinese campaign against the Four Pests - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#15

Post by westurner »

greenie_beans wrote: post #12
ralusek wrote: post #10

I'm a gardening and landscaping enjoyer, but I am constantly confused about the bordering magical thinking surrounding dirt, among other aspects of growing things. If you look at hydroponics/aeroponics, plants basically need water, light, and fertilizer (N (nitrogen) P (phosphorous) K (potassium), and a few trace minerals). It can be the most synthetic process you've ever seen, and the plants will grow amazingly well…

sure, we can make them grow well in a lab. but a natural system is so much simpler and elegant

Plants absorb nitrogen and CO2 from the air and store it in their roots; plants fertilize soil.

If you only grow plants with externally-sourced nutrients, that is neither sustainable nor permaculture.

Though it may be more efficient to grow without soil; soil depletion isn't prevented by production processes that do not generate topsoil.

JADAM is a system developed by a chemicals engineer given what is observed to work in JNF/KNF. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38527264

Where do soil amendments come from, and what would deplete those stocks (with consideration for soil depletion)?

(Also, there are extremely efficient ammonia/nitrogen fertilizer generators, but still then the algae due to runoff problem. FWIU we should we asks ng farmers to Please produce granulated fertilizer instead of liquid.)

The new biofuel subsidies require no-till farming practices; which other countries are further along at implementing (in or to prevent or reverse soil depletion).

Tilling turns topsoil to dirt due to loss of moisture, oxidation, and solar radiation.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#16

Post by memhole »

ralusek wrote: post #10

I'm a gardening and landscaping enjoyer, but I am constantly confused about the bordering magical thinking surrounding dirt, among other aspects of growing things. If you look at hydroponics/aeroponics, plants basically need water, light, and fertilizer (N (nitrogen) P (phosphorous) K (potassium), and a few trace minerals). It can be the most synthetic process you've ever seen, and the plants will grow amazingly well…

Maybe it’s because I started with hydroponics. I don’t get the fascination with soil or animosity about hydroponics being unnatural. People do vastly underestimate what it takes to create a good soil mixture, though. In the end, you’re suspending nutrients in a substrate for the plants to uptake regardless of how you go about providing them.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#17

Post by zeristor »

behringer wrote: post #13
noefingway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Item 3 is important in more ways than most people realize. Last year many farmers in my area that planted soybeans early had a problem with slugs eating the sprouting beans and were forced to replant multiple times. This spring I went to a growers conference and heard a presentation by a Prof. Tooker from Penn State Ag about the slug problem, which he has been researching for several years. Turns out that the slug in…

We just need to add a mollusk treatment!

The beetles are the mollusc treatment.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#18

Post by [deleted] »

westurner wrote: post #15
greenie_beans wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, we can make them grow well in a lab. but a natural system is so much simpler and elegant

Plants absorb nitrogen and CO2 from the air and store it in their roots; plants fertilize soil. If you only grow plants with externally-sourced nutrients, that is neither sustainable nor permaculture. Though it may be more efficient to grow without soil; soil depletion isn't prevented by production processes that do not generate topsoil. JADAM is a system developed by a chemicals engineer given what is observed to wo…

[deleted]

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#19

Post by tastyfreeze »

SwayamDas wrote: post #7

Here are the primary components that you would require - 1. Organic Matter: Compost and mulch enrich soil and improve structure. 2. Microorganisms: Bacteria, fungi, and mycorrhizae break down organic matter and enhance nutrient uptake. 3. Soil Fauna: Earthworms, insects, and arachnids aerate soil and mix organic matter. 4. Nutrients: Macronutrients (N, P, K) and micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, etc.) are essential for pla…

2 provides 4 from the insitu minerals. It may be necessary to add minerals if you are growing plants that require something the native minerals dont have. But, the majority of minerals plants need are available everywhere. The soil biology is required to unlock it for plants to use.

If you see the macrobiota in soil it is an indicator microbiota is present. The more the merrier.

Re: Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient

#20

Post by cellular »

ralusek wrote: post #10

I'm a gardening and landscaping enjoyer, but I am constantly confused about the bordering magical thinking surrounding dirt, among other aspects of growing things. If you look at hydroponics/aeroponics, plants basically need water, light, and fertilizer (N (nitrogen) P (phosphorous) K (potassium), and a few trace minerals). It can be the most synthetic process you've ever seen, and the plants will grow amazingly well…

I am terraforming my limestone rocky terrain using leaves.

I believe they have trace minerals and the grub larve eat the oak leaves and poop amazing soil.

I now have 6" of black soil with earthworms!

This is in dry central Texas. Moisture helps microbial/fungal life. Leaves retain moisture.

Another key ingredient is pressure/compaction of leaves.

I have results on my YouTube channel: theRainHarvester

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