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Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

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Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#11

Post by rasz »

mrandish wrote: post #9
pndy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, D…

> Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. Yes, I assumed so but figured if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s similar to the Galaksija in Yugoslavia or the rare Pecom 64 (of which I have one in my collection!), that they might still be in original owners hands in 2000 instead of museums. > Country itself changed in last 20 years and if you haven't seen it again in…

> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s

Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. After all it could be, and often was [1], used to undermine the regime!

Anecdote from book "High-tech behind the Iron Curtain. Electronics, computers and control systems in the Polish People's Republic" ("High-tech za żelazną kurtyną. Elektronika, komputery i systemy sterowania w PRL" 978-83-8098-094-5)

>In 1984, "Informatyka" magazine, involved in the dissemination of these machines, reported on the adventures of Mr. Przemysław, who received in April [...] a package from his brother in Toronto, containing the VIC-20 microcomputer, power supply, cassette recorder, a set of cassettes for television games and English language manual and connecting cables. The Customs Office in Gdynia refused to issue an import license, stating that it could issue [...] only if the computer was necessary for the citizen's professional or scientific work

Computers became legal somewhere around 1985 when Atari landed in special regime Pewex enterprise shops - shops only accepting hard western currency, currency illegal to own privately in the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewex

Elwro computers were sold to ministry of education or send to USSR sold for "transfer ruble", a fake currency with ridiculous fake official dollar exchange rate making every sale a huge loss for the factory. There were amateur DIY plans published in magazines, COBRA in AUDIO VIDEO and CA80 in Radioelektronik. Nobody was manufacturing those computers and afaik plans were being published during design and debugging making recreation a nightmare. >99% of 80s computers in Polish homes came smuggled from the west and most went straight to garbage in late nineties. Poland freed from russian occupation was getting wealthy really fast and nobody had time for obsoleted hardware.

[1] https://hackaday.com/2016/07/05/retrotechtacular-how-solidar...

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#12

Post by Animats »

kubb wrote: post #3

It's fascinating to have a glimpse into a parallel history of computing that happened in a small country without the resources to make it big, but with tireless efforts of brilliant mathematicians and engineers who made the advancements against the odds. If the history ran along a parallel path, I wonder what could have been different and what would have ended up exactly the same. For the PL nerds who are curious abo…

> parallel history of computing

Indeed. Note that on the tape drives, the take-up reel is on the left.

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#13

Post by thrw99 »

pndy wrote: post #7
mrandish wrote: post #2

> as the inefficiency of the centralisation efforts meant that it was met with delays and a lack of coordination. Starting in 1981, I lived through the evolution of "personal computers" and have worked in the startup side of high tech most of my career. Even in the U.S. it was hard to create a successful, sustainable business in computing. I can't even imagine trying to do the same in the Eastern block with central p…

> Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, D…

> due to financial management "problems"

those problems were not management, founder of Optimus- Roman Kluska is one of the most briliant minds in Poland, even today. Problems were caused by the state itself, first directing Optimus to book VAT in certain way, and then the same state accusing Optimus of defrauding VAT. Roman Kluska was imprisoned and had to pay 8mln PLN to be bailed, later when he was deemed not guilty that money was never returned to him, not to mention all damage they caused to himself and his business. These are leftovers of communism aparatus, nobody liable for anything.

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#14

Post by pndy »

thrw99 wrote: post #13
pndy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, D…

> due to financial management "problems" those problems were not management, founder of Optimus- Roman Kluska is one of the most briliant minds in Poland, even today. Problems were caused by the state itself, first directing Optimus to book VAT in certain way, and then the same state accusing Optimus of defrauding VAT. Roman Kluska was imprisoned and had to pay 8mln PLN to be bailed, later when he was deemed not guil…

Thus "problems"; I didn't want to dive into whole story because this tree is already off-topic for a different period. Tho, thanks for a few additional words.

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#15

Post by nehal3m »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #5
danielam wrote: post #4

I found this YouTube channel about the MERA-400, complete with interviews with its designer [0]. Unfortunately, it is all in Polish. [0] https://youtube.com/@mera400

Fortunately, automatically generated subtitles are often good enough.

How would you know if you don’t speak the language?

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#17

Post by cromka »

thrw99 wrote: post #13
pndy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, D…

> due to financial management "problems" those problems were not management, founder of Optimus- Roman Kluska is one of the most briliant minds in Poland, even today. Problems were caused by the state itself, first directing Optimus to book VAT in certain way, and then the same state accusing Optimus of defrauding VAT. Roman Kluska was imprisoned and had to pay 8mln PLN to be bailed, later when he was deemed not guil…

I actually heard the administration was specifically bribed to oust Kluska by the HP who were entering the market at that time.

It’s a rumor but considering how corrupt was everything back then, I find it completely plausible since otherwise it would be against Polish raison d’etat to kill a strong, homegrown computer manufacturer.

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#18

Post by chmod775 »

nehal3m wrote: post #15
RicoElectrico wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, automatically generated subtitles are often good enough.

How would you know if you don’t speak the language?

How do you know you can comprehend someone's English? You assume you do because the information conveyed isn't self-contradictory or nonsensical, doesn't contradict your observed reality and things you know to be true, and is unlikely to do so by mere chance.

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#19

Post by StefanBatory »

rasz wrote: post #11
mrandish wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. Yes, I assumed so but figured if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s similar to the Galaksija in Yugoslavia or the rare Pecom 64 (of which I have one in my collection!), that they might still be in original owners hands in 2000 instead of museums. > Country itself changed in last 20 years and if you haven't seen it again in…

> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. After all it could be, and often was [1], used to undermine the regime! Anecdote from book "High-tech behind the Iron Curtain. Electronics, computers and control systems in the Polish People's Republic" ("High-tech za żelazną kurtyną. Elektronika, komputery i syst…

I tried to see if that book is still available to get, doesn't seem like so, at least in paper :I hate how with most history books published here, after a year or two it's impossible to get them due to low print :(

Re: Cyberpunk 1958: The Early Days of the Polish IT Industry

#20

Post by p_l »

pinewurst wrote: post #8

It’s not mentioned but the ODRA 1300s were ICT/ICL 1900 compatibles, pretty far from the Western state of the art (circa early 1960s).

At the time Odra 1300 were in R&D, they were on par - in fact, ELWRO and ICL cooperated, so the hardware was locally designed but compatible, and base software was essentially localized from ICL one + local software packages.

This built a pretty good starting position to work on more advanced designs, but then certain stupidity happened in form of ES ("Single System") initiative, which a) was based around S/360 when S/370 was to be released b) ELWRO was assigned "mid performance" machines when it could actually deliver a much faster one.

I don't know for certain how true it is, but there's a legend that ELWRO prepared a design based on their best, but compatible with S/360 and thus rest of ES EVM - just way faster in smaller frame (effectively imagine top-tier S/360 CPU but in way smaller package), and kept true performance details secret until accidental leak caused a small but impactful political shitstorm that canceled the efforts.

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