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What my stroke taught me (2017)

nautil.us

31–40 of 75 posts

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#31

That's so beautiful and deep. No one knows how he would deal in such a situation and cope with it, some would give up or even kill themselves, other fight to come back. Being able to reflect on that traumatic experience in such a calm and thoughtful process is inspiring. Side note, could it be possible that the 'inner voice', which the author lost during a while is what separate us from animals ? She mentions being a…

> A small part of the brain that gives consciousness.

Not to get too tangental, but it was common thought at one time to think the brain is the center of consciousness. However, I have come across new data [1] that has convinced me that consciousness is entirely a full-body experience. According to the definition of some, consciousness might not even be a binary state, but rather a property of our universe like heat.

[1] Found this video on this site, and I found it to be a fascinating discussion if you have the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8iFtaltX-s

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#32
I posted a few days ago about my own experiences with aphasia as a teen. The term author came up with, "The Quiet," resonates with me. My own experience was also quiet, but not as peaceful as hers.

My stroke was a thief of thought; language fell apart, washed away, leaving me unable to read, write, or even conceive of words. Talking was something beyond me, to the point that I didn't notice when people were moving their mouths while speaking.

For about 3 weeks after my stroke, it seemed everyone was giving me the silent treatment, and I was worried I'd done something terribly wrong to the point nobody would even talk to me, yet I couldn't put any words together to ask them why they were so angry with me. Somehow, I also sensed that something was terribly wrong with me, but I couldn't quite grasp what it was; any time I tried, it slipped through my fingers like fog.

Yet, it was still very quiet, and that left me much more focused on sensations and immediate experiences than before or after. Apparently, I would stare at a tree, or at the snow as it fell. Simply existing. Feeling connected to the world in a new way, part of it, instead of separate from it. Maybe this was ultimate mindfulness, but it didn't feel that way. When I practice mindfulness now, there's still a sense of I-ness that wasn't present back then. All there was existence and connection along with a vague unease, knowing something was wrong.

Much later, they told me I only spoke 5 words after the stroke, all of them so-called "automatic" words like yes, no, and what.

For...reasons...my parents never took me to see a doctor about it, so I had to relearn how to read, write, speak, and listen on my own. Without words, I had to figure out other ways of thinking that didn't involve an internal monologue. Within weeks, I was already building up a new way of thinking to allow myself to understand what was happening in a way that didn't involve language, yet was still expressive enough to describe my experiences internally just as well as language had allowed. To this day, my natural mode of thinking involves no monologue, no words, no images at all.

I do remember what it was like to think in words all the time when I was younger, an unending flow that had carved a deep canyon in my mental landscape. But now that river is little more than a nearly dried up trickle and the canyon lies empty...except when I put words together to communicate with others.

Word-ing is now a very intentional activity for me, laying words like bricks, together with the mortar of understanding to build my own Tower of Babel, translating back and forth between my new way of thinking and the words I need to communicate with others. I've been told I have a very deliberate way of speaking in person, as though I'm carefully choosing each word, and this is why.

I sometimes wonder what my life would be like now if I'd never had the stroke, never lost my language. I suppose I'll never know.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#33

Well written - I do not possess an internal monologue (which apparently isn't uncommon), and a common thing people think is that it is like this author's description of "quiet" - yes, there is not a person "talking" in my head, but my head is anything but quiet most of the time. It just doesn't take the form of words/sound.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

That is not something you diagnose and I doubt it's very important at all, just a different way of thinking. Words are just a way to communicate ideas but having the complete context of your own mind you don't need them, you can just think of the ideas directly instead of translating to words.

I myself have an inner monologue like 80% of the time and the times that I don't thinking seems faster. The downside is being harder to translate into words if I need to explain the idea to others.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#34
post #22

I had a mini stroke that was classed as a TIA at the time, though it later turned out to have some lasting effects. It's a fascinating and overwhelming experience to unlearn reading. To me, the immediate physical aspect was that all text started to look like Star Wars languages. Another aspect was that it was difficult to even concentrate on the text. It no longer stood out from the environment. It was an irrelevant…

Very eloquent description of the tyranny of competence.

That's what makes great art sometimes, sharing an obvious truth that everyone overlooks. (Proof of work kinda - difficult to find but easy to prove)

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#35

Well written - I do not possess an internal monologue (which apparently isn't uncommon), and a common thing people think is that it is like this author's description of "quiet" - yes, there is not a person "talking" in my head, but my head is anything but quiet most of the time. It just doesn't take the form of words/sound.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

The two sibling comments have great answers. For me, it feels like a very intuitive process. I've described it to others in the past as feeling like I'm constructing a sort of cognitive atom graph, where memories, emotions, facts, and concepts are the nodes, and the strengths of connection between these are the edges.

To be clear, I'm not actually picturing a graph in my head; it's more that it feels similar in a lot of ways.

This probably sounds incredibly complicated, byzantine, and wasteful to word thinkers, but for me, constructing these "graphs" is so natural and rapid, that I can easily outthink my ability to convert my thoughts to words. It's intuition driven, and operates very quickly, in a sort of semi-conscious scatter/gather way.

I'm guessing other people may also do this subconsciously before they turn what they've gathered into words (maybe?), but for me, retrieving all this is often a more conscious activity.

All of this is as natural to me as breathing. I’m not planning out which things I’m going to scatter-gather, it just sort of happens, just like breathing or beating my heart just sort of happens, and just like those two things I can either be aware of it and control it, or unaware of it and just let it flow.

As an example, where someone else might literally think the words “my favorite flowers are roses”, I would grab concepts of flora, flower, plant reproduction, bees, nectar, pollen, etc. and facts like climbs trellises, susceptible to fungal infections, has thorns, and memories of many of the times I’ve seen roses or listened to someone talk about roses, and finally my emotions like happiness, fear (from the thorns), peacefulness, contentment, enjoyment, personal-ness, etc. Then link all of these together to give a graph that carries a lot of meaning that is extremely specific to me.

All this happens in a tiny fraction of a second. I'm aware of all the parts that go into this thought, even as I understand what the sum of those parts adds up to. There's a great deal of nuance in my new way of thinking that's hard to convert into words in a concise way. "My favorite flowers are roses" is a highly pruned version of what I was actually thinking. It's not a better way or a worse way of thinking. It's just different. Like everything, it has its strengths, and it has its weaknesses.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#36
post #22

I had a mini stroke that was classed as a TIA at the time, though it later turned out to have some lasting effects. It's a fascinating and overwhelming experience to unlearn reading. To me, the immediate physical aspect was that all text started to look like Star Wars languages. Another aspect was that it was difficult to even concentrate on the text. It no longer stood out from the environment. It was an irrelevant…

[deleted]

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#37

Well written - I do not possess an internal monologue (which apparently isn't uncommon), and a common thing people think is that it is like this author's description of "quiet" - yes, there is not a person "talking" in my head, but my head is anything but quiet most of the time. It just doesn't take the form of words/sound.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

If I am thinking about how to express a complex idea in writing or speech, I’ll certainly have an “internal monologue.”

But if I’m just thinking about something myself, my thoughts just exist as abstract thoughts that aren’t tied to language. My brain is constantly thinking, but I’m not thinking in English!

I could express the same sort of disbelief you did - I can’t imagine how slow and inefficient it must be to have to do all your thinking in terms of words as opposed just operating on the underlying ideas directly.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#38
I had gone blind in my right eye. There was one person standing before me at the reception in the emergency room arguing with the receptionist because he did not have health insurance (before the ACA). I remember thinking about a post card I saw in Powell's Books on Hawthorn St. in Portland Oregon out of the corner of my eye years earlier that said (paraphrasing) "Be thankful for our enemies, for they give us the opportunity to learn patience and understanding -- The Buddha." (The Buddha never said that.) While waiting I thought this was a good opportunity for me to learn patience and remain calm letting the man finish. That was a good thought because I was suffering from a stroke and if I had not been calm likely I wouldn't have survived. Turns out, every prior moment I had learned patience and understanding was for that one single moment.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

The two sibling comments have great answers. For me, it feels like a very intuitive process. I've described it to others in the past as feeling like I'm constructing a sort of cognitive atom graph, where memories, emotions, facts, and concepts are the nodes, and the strengths of connection between these are the edges. To be clear, I'm not actually picturing a graph in my head; it's more that it feels similar in a lot…

[deleted]

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#40

Well written - I do not possess an internal monologue (which apparently isn't uncommon), and a common thing people think is that it is like this author's description of "quiet" - yes, there is not a person "talking" in my head, but my head is anything but quiet most of the time. It just doesn't take the form of words/sound.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

This is kicking the can down the road. I can ask you: what happens before you have "inner monologue"? Nothing? Words just pop into your head? How do you decide what to "inner monologue"? How can you have "complex inner monologue" without inner monologue discussing the coming inner monologue?

We're the same, but I just skip the inner monologue. Now I'm typing and I have very little idea what comes next. I review it afterwards. I just have one level of this, you seem to have two and I don't know why you do it, but perhaps it's another level of control. Perhaps this bifurcation buys you something.

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