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Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

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Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#11
post #8

> These findings contradict the commonly-held idea that killing is an 'unnatural' act for humans that inevitably inflicts a moral injury on the individual, the researchers write in Armed Forces and Society. > "There is a widespread belief in society that taking the life of another person goes against human nature, and that this will easily create what psychotraumatology refers to as 'moral injuries'," said Nordstrand…

prepare for war, western man!

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#12

I would be surprised if there were any universal sense of moral injury. If the child grows up with warrior morals, they will not worry about opponent's death.

Desperate 18 y.os needing that cosy salary is enough of an incentive. No need for romanticization like warrior morals or something. War is industrialized enough.

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#14
post #4

Time plays a factor that may not be well controlled for here. As you get older the actions you have taken and the events you have participated in can impact you in new ways.

The risk perhaps not so much moral injury, but that combat and war is almost like a drug. Imagine going back home to a toddler raging about the wrong color cup, a narrow set of civil rules, and flipping burgers after living a life out the back of a pickup truck with nothing but a rifle and your buddies keeping you alive.

Fucking boring.

But I'm no killer, just a guy who spent a few months in a civil war, and met a lot of people who met the Hemingway quote:

  "Those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it never care for anything else thereafter."

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#15

"commonly-held idea that killing is an 'unnatural' act for humans" Say what? It may be one of the most natural acts for humans as far as history shows

I don't think killing is a natural act. Most people throughout history died from disease, not war. In the past, if you killed someone, like in a battle, there is a good chance you're going to die in the next battle of the military campaign. Few soldiers survived the military campaigns of the past. Maybe that's why we don't hear much about PTSD among past soldiers.

Huh? Rome had career soldiers. Don't quote me on the numbers, but a Roman soldier might see 2-5 major battles and dozens of dustups and minor skirmishes. They served for 25 years. Overall death rate was 25-40% but most of that was due to disease or accidents - due to spending 25 years walking around in the woods - not combat. And European medieval wars were fought by part-time soldiers whose main job was making money for their lord. If "few" people survived ancient military campaigns, why would medieval lords fight wars at all? Surely fighting a war isn't worthwhile if at the end of it you have merely a "few" employees left.

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#17

"commonly-held idea that killing is an 'unnatural' act for humans" Say what? It may be one of the most natural acts for humans as far as history shows

I don't think killing is a natural act. Most people throughout history died from disease, not war. In the past, if you killed someone, like in a battle, there is a good chance you're going to die in the next battle of the military campaign. Few soldiers survived the military campaigns of the past. Maybe that's why we don't hear much about PTSD among past soldiers.

> natural act

Most actions do or don't suit circumstances, rather than this being something inherent.

I might take lots of pictures outside at a festival or go pee inside a bathroom, but probably not the reverse.

(See also, the fundamental attribution error.)

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#19
post #4

Time plays a factor that may not be well controlled for here. As you get older the actions you have taken and the events you have participated in can impact you in new ways.

Yep, fairly common to hear about old veterans who will not discuss what they did in combat, one could guess because they don't want to resurface those memories.

My grandfather was in the Pacific theater during WW2, but only the military knows why he had nightmares.

Re: Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

#20

"commonly-held idea that killing is an 'unnatural' act for humans" Say what? It may be one of the most natural acts for humans as far as history shows

It’s a natural act for pretty much all animals on this planet

What is an unnatural act?
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