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Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

nature.com

41–50 of 173 posts

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#41
As a surfer, I've done a few breathwork classes even though I've never been close to being in conditions that really needed it. There is a tremendous amount of training that you can do to basically change your conscious thoughts in an instant. Going from 180bpm heart rate and anxious panic to a static breath hold for up to a minute while being ragdolled and disoriented, is basically ego death. If you watch some gnarly big wave surfers talk about breathwork, they talk about rapidly flushing out your air in 3-4 big breaths, calming your heart rate, and even laughing, all right before or in anticipation of a pounding. Plus the whole Gerry Lopez yoga and meditation era of the 70s made it clear how important breathing and mental state were.

In any case, this is something every single surfer beyond a certain level is required to master, so I'd love to see data from that kind of cohort. The old lady freedivers of Jeju Island would be cool too.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#42
post #30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'ver heard the Aranet4 is quite good for this but haven't yet been able to justify buying one. I do try to open windows frequently, though.

I don't get why they're so expensive. You can buy the ndir co2 sensor on AliExpress for around $10. And yet they want $180 for that thing. And measuring humidity and barometric pressure is a component that costs $4 or $5 for you or I to buy.

Quality CO₂ sensors are pricey. I previously had two from AliExpress, but both were unreliable and eventually broke. I finally got an Aranet4, and it’s been flawless for over a year so far.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#43

I've had this described to me as basically the combination of neuro+psychological effects of hyperventilation (respiratory alkalosis) in a peaceful/positive environment (as opposed to anxiety-attack-driven or etc.), plus the meditative effects of deep breathing, plus the meditative/brain-entrainment effects of rhythmic movement of a major central/core muscle (diaphragm). Together, those often cause euphoria, altered…

I'm a philosopher, not a medical professional. But I can tell you that philosophy and deep breathing are inextricably linked. Breathing deeply in of itself is a philosophical exercise, one that centers and grounds oneself in the here and now of the universe that surrounds you, and the universe that lies deep within you. It's a cosmic balance between the metaphysical and the empirical. As a philosopher, one must be ab…

Ah yes, the philosopher’s breath: inhale the cosmos, exhale epistemology. Repeat until the loop collapses or you do.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#44

In yoga breath work which happens there is directly tied into the rest of the practice. it isn’t taught enough in America, but if you find an actual good teacher, of which there do not seem to be many, the benefits are wonderful. Anecdotally and from personal experience, they say that when beginning a consistent practice you will often feel a great euphoria after practicing for 60 or 90 minutes. Can confirm; and it l…

At what level do you experience euphoria? Say on a scale of a low dose of codeine to a standard dose of heroin? Or is it more like the euphoria you get from running? Or the euphoria you get from tripping? Or the euphoria associated with some strains of cannabis? Or the euphoria associated with amphetamines? Or the euphoria associated with ethanol consumption?

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#45

I don't mean to be too critical, but why is breathwork/meditation so popular in Atheist circles? When I would presume rationality is the goal, and this seems like it would alter it in a negative way. (depriving your brain of oxygen, presumably decreases its ability to think rationally, or at least run at full capacity) I get that someone like Sam Harris, makes bank promoting his meditation app. But his atheist audien…

I study cognitive neuroscience. Meditation is extremely evidence-based. It is literally one of the most evidence-based things there is in terms of actions you can take to improve mood, executive function, focus, general cognition, etc., it's almost as backed as physical exercise. Of course, there is also a lot of woo-woo spiritual stuff around it, but you can just ignore that side and use it effectively. Not sure about breathwork, I'm moderately skeptical of many the claims made about it, but I haven't looked super far into it comparatively.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#46
post #33

i am a (former) neuroscientist and breathwork facilitator (mostly conscious connected breath) — AMA. the effect of decreased co2 concentration on vasoconstrictions (and also alkalosis-induced tetany, ie your muscles cramping, which happens a lot during breathwork) are well known [1], but i've never seen them quantified in such a clear way. It's cool to see mainstream science give it a closer look! [1] for anyone inte…

As a Neuroscientist and breathwork facilitator, do you think there is any harm in intentional apnea (e.g. free diving, static holds, ect)?

At what point does cell damage (not necessarily death), kick in? As someone involved in these sports, I operate under the assumption that any damage would kick in after loss of consciousness. For example, if I hold my breath, even for 4 or 5 minutes but dont pass out, that is an indication I am still in the range of safe practice. Anecdotally, I know many people who have spent their lives doing breathholds, and they dont seem any worse for wear.

Are there any high quality studies that look at potential brain damage prior to loss of consciousness?

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#47
post #41

As a surfer, I've done a few breathwork classes even though I've never been close to being in conditions that really needed it. There is a tremendous amount of training that you can do to basically change your conscious thoughts in an instant. Going from 180bpm heart rate and anxious panic to a static breath hold for up to a minute while being ragdolled and disoriented, is basically ego death. If you watch some gnarl…

For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breathing?

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you presume rationality is the goal, then the rational mind should point to decades of research and anecdotal evidence that shows the positive effeccts of meditation and breathwork on mental well-being. Why are you assuming depriving your brain of oxygen for a short period of time is decreases the ability to think rationally? That could be a short term effect, but a long term adaptive effect could be the brain thi…

Well, if one's thoughts can be altered depending on the amount of oxygen the brain receives. How can you possibly be sure about your own rationality. Couldn't you rationally start to question anything you've come to a conclusion about before, as just a byproduct of your brain's oxygen levels at that time.

Oddly enough becoming a serious athlete, changing my diet and training as my job, completely changed who I am and remembering my thought processes and overall mental state of the previous lifestyle is bizarre as though that person is truly alien to my current self.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#49
post #41

As a surfer, I've done a few breathwork classes even though I've never been close to being in conditions that really needed it. There is a tremendous amount of training that you can do to basically change your conscious thoughts in an instant. Going from 180bpm heart rate and anxious panic to a static breath hold for up to a minute while being ragdolled and disoriented, is basically ego death. If you watch some gnarl…

For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breathing?

You can get hit by multiple waves in succession while surfing, preventing you from breathing for up to a minute. If you're at 180bpm and not breathing for a minute, you won't be coming back up

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#50

In yoga breath work which happens there is directly tied into the rest of the practice. it isn’t taught enough in America, but if you find an actual good teacher, of which there do not seem to be many, the benefits are wonderful. Anecdotally and from personal experience, they say that when beginning a consistent practice you will often feel a great euphoria after practicing for 60 or 90 minutes. Can confirm; and it l…

At what level do you experience euphoria? Say on a scale of a low dose of codeine to a standard dose of heroin? Or is it more like the euphoria you get from running? Or the euphoria you get from tripping? Or the euphoria associated with some strains of cannabis? Or the euphoria associated with amphetamines? Or the euphoria associated with ethanol consumption?

Or is it the same euphoria that you are perceiving differently
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