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What my stroke taught me (2017)

nautil.us

21–30 of 75 posts

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#21
Got about as far as being unable to read before I started crying.

After two Heart attacks, welcome to my last five years of passive acceptance.

Just about back up to reading so long as a sentence doesn't have too many concepts or TLAs. In which case, slow down and start again.

Had to learn to program again. I could remember the university lectures teaching programming (modula-2 - never used since) perfectly. I could remember reading the text books over the last 20 years (C, Ada, Visual basic, C++, ASP, C#, Delphi, Java, JavaScript) all of which I've programmed in but the fingers can not type the magic program words any more.

I've re-learnt C, I've prodded some of the bits I've completely forgotten the existence of (C unions of all things!), I've written half a pascal compiler. I've waded through Petzold's Windows Winforms C# book. I'm currently poking at relearning OOP with writing lisp interpreter from scratch (not just the meta-circular thing), but I seem to have side tracked into OpenGL, WebGL and ES.

After five years I've just about at the point where I can (technically) cope with a job again. But, s*t, agencies and CVs. I might hit retirement before I can deal with those again.

Meh, have fun.

Don't expect a reply - I've already forgotten the password for this account.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#22
I had a mini stroke that was classed as a TIA at the time, though it later turned out to have some lasting effects. It's a fascinating and overwhelming experience to unlearn reading.

To me, the immediate physical aspect was that all text started to look like Star Wars languages. Another aspect was that it was difficult to even concentrate on the text. It no longer stood out from the environment. It was an irrelevant detail, a decoration you wouldn't pay particular attention to.

I can also appreciate what the author is saying about how their perspective of the world shifted. I expect that her shift was a lot larger than mine, but mine already made me appreciate that in the modern world, when we look at things, we often seek to retrieve some bit of information. We don't look at them holistically. Our tunnel vision is tremendous.

As you are reading this comment, you are so focused on the words that you don't see the boxy proportions of the rectangular screen you're looking at. You don't see the contrast on the screen; you're not even paying attention to the colors, likely. The texture of your display is expected to be different on the back, the corners, and its surface. Your display is also a rectangular light, casting a shadow of your head behind you now. Some parts of the light are stronger than others; it's not a uniform light. The device you're reading this on (whether a monitor or a phone) has hot spots and cold spots on its chassis that you may not have thought about, despite looking at it or touching it for thousands of hours.

But if you can't read, you see all these things on a computer monitor, on a TV, on a road sign, on a book, and that's all that your brain finds significant about that object. That's quite interesting - how our language abilities shape our everyday perception of reality.

I would even say that it can be an enlightening experience to take a holiday from reading. Though I don't think anyone can come close to enjoying it, considering how much anxiety the thought of whether they'll learn it again causes. In some ways, experiencing the world around them freshly anew, without that anxiety (as the author has), is a blissful and beautiful experience few people have had in their lives.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#23
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about having somebody constantly chatting in my head :) I'd assume for both of us it's mostly fear of the unknown.

How would you think through complex scenarios otherwise? Like: "How does the current US president influence global welfare?" (relevant, but rather trite, I know). Genuinely curious how you could form an opinion or at least analyze the question without verbalizing the ensuing self-conversation in your mind. Much (abstract) thought is informed by language.

I have no inner monologue unless I switch it on consciously, which I don’t like doing as it slows down thinking by orders of magnitude. In your example, I see things like graphs, numbers, maps, make connections and see possible futures, no explicit words involved.

Edit: I also tend to “simulate” what is going to happen by conjuring up a small video of people dealing with the situation, or myself in that situation.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you ever think to yourself when waking up 'time to wake up' ? Or when you see someone you don't like 'oh here is that motherfucker' ? I mean the inner voice isn't like a deep discussion between you and you, its spontaneous stuff you just wouldn't say out loud. I have a hard time believing some people don't have it.

Language is just a way of encoding semantic meaning. If your brain already knows that it is time to wake up or that it hates that guy, what's the point of encoding a description of that feeling into spoken language and replay it? That sounds inefficient. I have an inner monologue, but most of the time (and especially when I want to work fast), I "disable" it. Then my mind simply works in the "meaning space", where it…

Language is just a way of encoding semantic meaning - this is a perfect explanation and im going to use it from now on, thanks. yea this is like me too.

curious, did you start reading at a very early age? I started around 3. this is what I personally think it is. It’s not like I dont have the ability to hear a narrative in my head, I just dont do it. I’ve suspected that since I began reading so early, it has something to do with it - and if you’re not capable of reading /comprehending as fast as I can, like if you’re literally sounding out every word in your head you’d never be able to keep up with whatever it is I do. I’d be enormously frustrated by that process. But to me this is what “narrative voice people” must do in their heads.

or maybe it has to do (for me) being on the spectrum (high functioning)

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's bad to say this - lile telling someone who is ill that they are not - but I cannot believe that someone truly has no inner monologue and at the same is capable of expressing complex ideas in writing or speech. What IS there then, if it's not quiet like the author describes? Could it be a lack of introspection? Have you been examined by any kind of specialist or is it self diagnosed?

People have asked me this. I don’t know what to say other than I just make the connections I need to in my head. sometimes it’s visual but it’s usually pretty abstract and I’m not really very conscious of it. From the outside it probably looks like intuition. I write a lot of things out and sketch things. i have a math heavy degree so pretty sure im not disabled in any kind of way. sometimes I struggle to explain my…

When you consider a paragraph, perhaps to write, how do you plan it before writing?

When you reflect on something embarrassing, how could it have gone differently? How do you imagine "I should have done this differently?"

Imagine arguing with a friend, now a clone of yourself, now hold two options in your mind (what to have for dinner) and assign a clone to argue for each. Is it possible?

You must get this all the time and I'm sorry, but it's so interesting! I'd buy all your beers for weeks just to chat about it.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have asked me this. I don’t know what to say other than I just make the connections I need to in my head. sometimes it’s visual but it’s usually pretty abstract and I’m not really very conscious of it. From the outside it probably looks like intuition. I write a lot of things out and sketch things. i have a math heavy degree so pretty sure im not disabled in any kind of way. sometimes I struggle to explain my…

When you consider a paragraph, perhaps to write, how do you plan it before writing? When you reflect on something embarrassing, how could it have gone differently? How do you imagine "I should have done this differently?" Imagine arguing with a friend, now a clone of yourself, now hold two options in your mind (what to have for dinner) and assign a clone to argue for each. Is it possible? You must get this all the ti…

I don’t get this all the time or get into it because most people don’t understand or dismiss it. I just hope I can explain well enough.

When I write it’s almost always flow of consciousness style and I make a lot of mistakes. In online or chat kind of settings it makes me look a little dumber than I am, I mix words up on the spot a lot, it’s probably the closest thing to whatever would be my “internal” narrative, also because I am limited by the speed at which I can type. So when to type a paragraph if I am being serious it usually takes 70+ revisions (not changing what I am saying) for me to consider it perfect. I don’t usually bother and go 1/10th of that for professional writing and tend to be called a decent writer (again, I have to try).

So that’s probably the lack of narrative thing. writing my thoughts out helps. I have always kept extensive journals going back to when I was 5 or 6 or whenever I could write.

for your second scenario yea that’s a very easy thing for me. I often argue with myself anyway. I mutter out loud sometimes, probably makes me seem a little unhinged but with what I do it fits right in with other “types.”

I do visualize and play out scenarios a lot in my head, they are very vivid, and I am pretty proficient at going farther with this with lucid dreaming. Sights/sounds in my head are very easy for me. I just don’t really hear my own voice, or whatever.

I think it comes with some downsides with introspection sometimes but I’ve been well aware of this for a while - which is why I think the “argue with yourself with two conflicting arguments” thing is probably easy for me. I am constantly in “arguments” with my own assumptions. I think this last thing is why I’ve always been fairly proficient with abstract math.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#27
post #15

My father recently passed, and on the way there had 3 strokes (he's been smoking since he was 8). The unnerving thing about his first stroke recovery is that as the brain healed, his personality seemed to change. My dad is friends with everyone, my mental picture is of him telling a fascinating story while everyone listens. For a few months, the confident man I'd known for 40 years became like a teenager, quiet and t…

My mom's had some personality changes since coming down with dementia. For one, she doesn't attend church anymore. Church is really close by; with assistance she could walk or be driven there easily. She just doesn't want to go. She'd been a Catholic all her life, and was just suddenly tired of all that Catholic stuff, in a way I thought I'd never see her be.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#28
A friend of my wife's showed me a video of herself, post-stroke, reading from a Barney (purple dinosaur) book. She read with a strange accent that was more of an exaggerated Southern mixed with something completely alien. It was fascinating, and saddening, to see the precise ways in which her linguistic ability had been hit.

She's fine now, though, so no worries.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#29

That's so beautiful and deep. No one knows how he would deal in such a situation and cope with it, some would give up or even kill themselves, other fight to come back. Being able to reflect on that traumatic experience in such a calm and thoughtful process is inspiring. Side note, could it be possible that the 'inner voice', which the author lost during a while is what separate us from animals ? She mentions being a…

She didn't only lose her inner voice but the capacity to communicate and understand language properly. She also lost a lot of other, harder to detect, stuff. She also writes that she was capable of complex thought, just in a different way. There are people naturally without an inner speech who can think just as well.

The Calm she speaks about is something else, it may be similar to animals or it may not but I doubt it was only caused by her loss of speech.

Re: What my stroke taught me (2017)

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you consider a paragraph, perhaps to write, how do you plan it before writing? When you reflect on something embarrassing, how could it have gone differently? How do you imagine "I should have done this differently?" Imagine arguing with a friend, now a clone of yourself, now hold two options in your mind (what to have for dinner) and assign a clone to argue for each. Is it possible? You must get this all the ti…

I don’t get this all the time or get into it because most people don’t understand or dismiss it. I just hope I can explain well enough. When I write it’s almost always flow of consciousness style and I make a lot of mistakes. In online or chat kind of settings it makes me look a little dumber than I am, I mix words up on the spot a lot, it’s probably the closest thing to whatever would be my “internal” narrative, als…

Thanks for sharing. I find it impossible to differentiate what I consider my inner monologue from any of the above. So, maybe we are more similar than different.
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