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Gemini 2.5 Flash

developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#121

Post by peterjliu »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

another advantage is people want the Google bot to crawl their pages, unlike most AI companies

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#122

Post by kriro »

Keyframe wrote: post #113
mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Google has the data and has the hardware, not to mention software and infrastructure talent. Once this Bismarck turns around and it looks like it is, who can parry it for real? They have internet.zip and all the previous versions as well, they have youtube, email, search, books, traffic, maps and business on it, phones and habits around it, even the OG social network, the usenet. It's a sleeping giant starting to wak…

Agreed. One of Google's big advantages is the data access and integrations. They are also positioned really well for the "AI as entertainment" sector with youtube which will be huge (imo). They also have the knowledge in adtech and well injecting adds into AI is an obvious play. As is harvesting AI chat data.

Meta and Google are the long term players to watch as Meta also has similar access (Insta, FB, WhatsApp).

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#123

Post by dist-epoch »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #103
spruce_tips wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a high volume task i wrote an eval for and was pleasantly surprised at 2.0 flash's cost to value ratio especially compared to gpt4.1-mini/nano accuracy | input price | output price Gemini Flash 2.0 Lite: 67% | $0.075 | $0.30 Gemini Flash 2.0: 93% | $0.10 | $0.40 GPT-4.1-mini: 93% | $0.40 | $1.60 GPT-4.1-nano: 43% | $0.10 | $0.40 excited to to try out 2.5 flash

Can I ask a serious question. What task are you writing where its ok to get 7% error rate. I can't get my head around how this can be used.

[flagged]

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#124

Post by serjester »

Just ran it on one of our internal PDF (3 pages, medium difficulty) to json benchmarks:

gemini-flash-2.0: 60 ish% accuracy 6,250 pages per dollar

gemini-2.5-flash-preview (no thinking): 80 ish% accuracy 1,700 pages per dollar

gemini-2.5-flash-preview (with thinking): 80 ish% accuracy (not sure what's going on here) 350 pages per dollar

gemini-flash-2.5: 90 ish% accuracy 150 pages per dollar

I do wish they separated the thinking variant from the regular one - it's incredibly confusing when a model parameter dramatically impacts pricing.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#125

Post by NoahZuniga »

dcre wrote: post #43
drusepth wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, the API is free? I thought you had to use their web interface for it to be free. How do you use the API for free?

You can get an API key and they don't bill you. Free tier rate limits for some models (even decent ones like Gemini 2.0 Flash) are quite high. https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/pricing https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/rate-limits#free-tier

The rate limits I've encountered with free api keys has been way lower than the limits advertised.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#126

Post by dynm »

throwup238 wrote: post #117
mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Nobody has really talked about what I think is an advantage just as powerful as the custom chips: Google Books. They already won a landmark fair use lawsuit against book publishers, digitized more books than anyone on earth, and used their Captcha service to crowdsource its OCR. They've got the best* legal cover and all of the best sources of human knowledge already there. Then Youtube for video. The chips of course…

The amount of text in books is surprisingly finite. My best estimate was that there are ~10¹³ tokens available in all books (https://dynomight.net/scaling/#scaling-data), which is less than frontier models are already being trained on. On the other hand, book tokens are probably much "better" than random internet tokens. Wikipedia for example seems to get much higher weight than other sources, and it's only ~3×10¹⁰ tokens.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#127

Post by anovick »

gundmc wrote: post #19
Workaccount2 wrote: post #10

OpenAI might win the college students but it looks like Google will lock in enterprise.

Funny you should say that. Google just announced today that they are giving all college students one year of free Gemini advanced. I wonder how much that will actually move the needle among the youth.

* Only in the U.S.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#128

Post by stefan_ »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

I don't know man, for months now people keep telling me on HN how "Google is winning", yet no normal person I ever asked knows what the fuck "Gemini" is. I don't know what they are winning, it might be internet points for all I know.

Actually, some of the people polled recalled the Google AI efforts by their expert system recommending glue on pizza and smoking in pregnancy. It's a big joke.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#129

Post by mmaunder »

peterjliu wrote: post #121
mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

another advantage is people want the Google bot to crawl their pages, unlike most AI companies

This is an underrated comment. Yes it's a big advantage and probably a measurable pain point for Anthropic and OpenAI. In fact you could just do a 1% survey of robots.txt out there and get a reasonable picture. Maybe a fun project for an HN'er.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#130

Post by ValveFan6969 »

serjester wrote: post #124

Just ran it on one of our internal PDF (3 pages, medium difficulty) to json benchmarks: gemini-flash-2.0: 60 ish% accuracy 6,250 pages per dollar gemini-2.5-flash-preview (no thinking): 80 ish% accuracy 1,700 pages per dollar gemini-2.5-flash-preview (with thinking): 80 ish% accuracy (not sure what's going on here) 350 pages per dollar gemini-flash-2.5: 90 ish% accuracy 150 pages per dollar I do wish they separated t…

I have been having similar performance issues, I believe they intentionally made a worse model (Gemini 2.5) to get more money out of you. However, there is a way where you can make money off of Gemini 2.5.

If you set the thinking parameter lower and lower, you can make the model spew absolute nonsense for the first response. It costs 10 cents per input / output, and sometimes you get a response that was just so bad your clients will ask for more and more corrections.

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