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Gemini 2.5 Flash

developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#111

Post by spruce_tips »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #103
spruce_tips wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a high volume task i wrote an eval for and was pleasantly surprised at 2.0 flash's cost to value ratio especially compared to gpt4.1-mini/nano accuracy | input price | output price Gemini Flash 2.0 Lite: 67% | $0.075 | $0.30 Gemini Flash 2.0: 93% | $0.10 | $0.40 GPT-4.1-mini: 93% | $0.40 | $1.60 GPT-4.1-nano: 43% | $0.10 | $0.40 excited to to try out 2.5 flash

Can I ask a serious question. What task are you writing where its ok to get 7% error rate. I can't get my head around how this can be used.

low stakes text classification but it's something that needs to be done and couldnt be done in reasonable time frames or at reasonable price points by humans

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#112

Post by nowittyusername »

gambiting wrote: post #60
arnaudsm wrote: post #6

Gemini flash models have the least hype, but in my experience in production have the best bang for the buck and multimodal tooling. Google is silently winning the AI race.

In my experience they are as dumb as a bag of bricks. The other day I asked "can you edit a picture if I upload one" And it replied "sure, here is a picture of a photo editing prompt:" https://g.co/gemini/share/5e298e7d7613 It's like "baby's first AI". The only good thing about it is that it's free.

Its because google hasn't realized the value of training the model on information about its own capabilities and metadata. My biggest pet peeve about google and the way they train these models.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#113

Post by Keyframe »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Google has the data and has the hardware, not to mention software and infrastructure talent. Once this Bismarck turns around and it looks like it is, who can parry it for real? They have internet.zip and all the previous versions as well, they have youtube, email, search, books, traffic, maps and business on it, phones and habits around it, even the OG social network, the usenet. It's a sleeping giant starting to wake up and it's already causing commotion, let's see what it does when it drinks morning coffee.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#114

Post by whyenot »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Another advantage that Google has is the deep integration of Gemini into Google Office products and Gmail. I was part of a pilot group and got to use a pre-release version and it's really powerful and not something that will be easy for OpenAI to match.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#115

Post by omneity »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #103
spruce_tips wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a high volume task i wrote an eval for and was pleasantly surprised at 2.0 flash's cost to value ratio especially compared to gpt4.1-mini/nano accuracy | input price | output price Gemini Flash 2.0 Lite: 67% | $0.075 | $0.30 Gemini Flash 2.0: 93% | $0.10 | $0.40 GPT-4.1-mini: 93% | $0.40 | $1.60 GPT-4.1-nano: 43% | $0.10 | $0.40 excited to to try out 2.5 flash

Can I ask a serious question. What task are you writing where its ok to get 7% error rate. I can't get my head around how this can be used.

In my case, I have workloads like this where it’s possible to verify the correctness of the result after inference, so any success rate is better than 0 as it’s possible to identify the “good ones”.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#116

Post by zoogeny »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

If the battle was between Altman and Pichai I'd have my doubts.

But the battle is between Altman and Hassabis.

I recall some advice on investment from Buffett regarding how he invests in the management team.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#117

Post by throwup238 »

mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Nobody has really talked about what I think is an advantage just as powerful as the custom chips: Google Books. They already won a landmark fair use lawsuit against book publishers, digitized more books than anyone on earth, and used their Captcha service to crowdsource its OCR. They've got the best* legal cover and all of the best sources of human knowledge already there. Then Youtube for video.

The chips of course push them over the top. I don't know how much Deep Research is costing them but it's by far the best experience with AI I've had so far with a generous 20/day rate limit. At this point I must be using up at least 5-10 compute hours a day. Until about a week ago I had almost completely written off Google.

* For what it's worth, I don't know. IANAL

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#118

Post by mmaunder »

whyenot wrote: post #114
mmaunder wrote: post #93

More great innovation from Google. OpenAI have two major problems. The first is Google's vertically integrated chip pipeline and deep supply chain and operational knowledge when it comes to creating AI chips and putting them into production. They have a massive cost advantage at every step. This translates into more free services, cheaper paid services, more capabilities due to more affordable compute, and far more g…

Another advantage that Google has is the deep integration of Gemini into Google Office products and Gmail. I was part of a pilot group and got to use a pre-release version and it's really powerful and not something that will be easy for OpenAI to match.

Agreed. Once they dial in the training for sheets it's going to be incredible. I'm already using notebooklm to upload finance PDFs, then having it generate tabular data and copypasta into sheets, but it's a garage solution compared to just telling it to create or update a sheet with parsed data from other sheets, PDFs, docs, etc.

And as far as gmail goes, I periodically try to ask it to unsubscribe from everything marketing related, and not from my own company, but it's not even close to being there. I think there will continue to be a gap in the market for more aggressive email integration with AI, given how useless email has become. I know A16Z has invested in a startup working on this. I doubt Gmail will integrate as deep as is possible, so the opportunity will remain.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#119

Post by r00fus »

Oras wrote: post #71
Workaccount2 wrote: post #10

OpenAI might win the college students but it looks like Google will lock in enterprise.

Enterprise has already been won by Microsoft (Azure), which runs on OpenAI.

That isn't what I'm seeing with my clientele (lots of startups and mature non-tech companies). Most are using Azure but very few have started to engage AI outside the periphery.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Flash

#120

Post by jay_kyburz »

drob518 wrote: post #92
gundmc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you should say that. Google just announced today that they are giving all college students one year of free Gemini advanced. I wonder how much that will actually move the needle among the youth.

And every professor just groaned at the thought of having to read yet another AI-generated term paper.

They should just get AI to mark them. I genuinely think this is one thing AI would do better than humans.
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