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How refrigeration changed our food

nytimes.com

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#71
post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

IMHO its more about the varieties that are grown for industrial scale and efficiency, rather than flavor. I was part of a community garden and started a lot of stuff from seed- celery, tomatoes, onions, garlic, lettuces etc... and I was overwhelmed by the different numbers of varieties of each and that "celery" isn't just celery. To be fair, not all of it was better- the celery variety was very bitter and chewy, but most other stuff was much more flavorful, though yields were smaller in most cases. The lettuce we grew in particular was so much better than anything sold in a store- at a cost of the fact that it would be wilted and almost unusable by the next day. We did throw in some garlic bulbs straight from the super market to grow next to our "heirloom" variety and the supermarket garlic was exactly what we were used to, while the heirloom was much stronger, and arguably more pleasant (I love garlic). Cooks often joke that "one clove" of garlic really means 5 to them, and I wonder if this is more of a result of breeding garlic over the years for different qualities other than its garlicky-ness instead of just recipe writers with a light hand... I don't think its the methods being used in large scale farming, but really more the varieties attempting to be grown.

There is also a factor that some types of foods will degrade within hours to some extent of being picked- Herbs I pick out of my garden like thyme and rosemary are extremely fragrant when picked, even a few hours later they are noticeably less so. I think many consumers have picked up on this, over the last decade or so I have noticed the fresh plants section of the grocery store expanding, while the "cut and plastic boxed" section of the store shrinking. I am in an urban area, most people don't have outdoor space (I didn't for many years), and I had difficulty keeping those plants alive when attempting to keep them going on my windowsill with a western exposure.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#72
post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

Frozen is good for smoothies / shakes. You cannot put fresh berries in a mixer and get a smoothie back, instead you'll get an expensive lump of thick substance that you cannot push through the straw :)

The same process makes certain things difficult or impossible because the frozen fruits and vegetables will fall apart (quickly) when cooked.

Also, I will prefer frozen spinach to fresh any day because it takes less time to cook (you can measure enough of it right away into the pan instead of adding incrementally and waiting for it to whittle and cook down).

Also, I think all these compliments to fresh locally picked food vs the plainest cheap stuff from the supermarket exaggerate the difference... a lot. Sometimes there's indeed a noticeable difference because a particular sort of fruit or veg aren't grown industrially (eg. there are plenty of sorts of potatoes but in a supermarket you will find maybe two, which are probably the most resilient to pests). But if you were to grow the same sort of potato you buy from supermarket, I'm pretty sure the difference would be so small as not to be noticeable at all.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Out of season stuff is usually imported from Mexico or South America. I'm guessing the long distance transport conditions may change the taste of the produce?

Yes, everything from parts of the fruit not rippening (Sometimes not at all), weakening of flavours, or visually ripe fruit that's really not

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#74

> Commercial produce today is both less flavorful and markedly less nutritious than what our great-grandparents ate. Outside a home garden or a farmer’s market, the modern consumer can’t taste truly fresh produce. In our pursuit of endless abundance, Twilley explains, we have lost “diversity and deliciousness.” Yup. Turns out, the varieties that do best in climate controlled greenhouses aren't the ones that have much…

Farmers markets (at least locally for me in California USA) are a bit of a crap shoot. They've become popular enough that one has to be discerning because some are infiltrated by people simply reselling goods from warehouse stores, though the boutique varieties of produce are pretty much guaranteed to be authentic and if one is lucky some regular produce is much cheaper than even discount grocers.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#75
post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Part of it is that the plants have been optimized for durability in transport, harvesting etc not just flavor. Farmers Markets here in the US or smaller chains are more likely to have the better produce but not guaranteed depending on where you are.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#76
post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

Frozen is good for smoothies / shakes. You cannot put fresh berries in a mixer and get a smoothie back, instead you'll get an expensive lump of thick substance that you cannot push through the straw :) The same process makes certain things difficult or impossible because the frozen fruits and vegetables will fall apart (quickly) when cooked. Also, I will prefer frozen spinach to fresh any day because it takes less ti…

From what I understand, if you freeze anything quickly as opposed to slowly, the resulting ice crystals are much smaller -and they tend to have much better taste and texture.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#77
post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Having scaled the latitudes of Europe, I will say that your generalisation is moot.

Try an aubergine in Germany, and then try one in Sicily. The difference is stark.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Having scaled the latitudes of Europe, I will say that your generalisation is moot. Try an aubergine in Germany, and then try one in Sicily. The difference is stark.

My point of reference is the same latitude as Moscow for what it’s worth and yet the food I get here in Southern California falls short. Sicily would be a dream in comparison.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frozen is good for smoothies / shakes. You cannot put fresh berries in a mixer and get a smoothie back, instead you'll get an expensive lump of thick substance that you cannot push through the straw :) The same process makes certain things difficult or impossible because the frozen fruits and vegetables will fall apart (quickly) when cooked. Also, I will prefer frozen spinach to fresh any day because it takes less ti…

From what I understand, if you freeze anything quickly as opposed to slowly, the resulting ice crystals are much smaller -and they tend to have much better taste and texture.

this is true. the process is called flash freezing.

That said, this advantage gets completely undone if the frozen food is left in a pallet waiting to get into another freezer. the subsequent refreeze will introduce the very ice damage the original process was trying to avoid. you can certainly take steps to minimize thaw on the way to your freezer but you don't know if the entire supply chain was so judicious.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#80
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home refrigeration is quite a bit older than electric refrigerators though. Iceboxes, kept cool by chunks of ice, were also called refrigerators and started being produced for home use in the 1840s.

Interestingly, my Mom's parents owned both an icebox and a quite modern electric refrigerator (1980s). The icebox was kept in a carpeted room and it was used for dry storage. We never put ice in it. And it was definitely called "the icebox". But also, Grandma referred to the refrigerator as "the icebox" as well, and we always knew what she meant, because she'd typically say "put that milk in the icebox" or whatever t…

I have some parallels.

My father's parents had a late-40s or early-50s refrigerator in the kitchen well into the late-90s. It had an actual levered latch to hold it shut, and a small freezer section up in the top. Especially as a child, I had to just about body-slam the door to get it to latch. That was the "icebox". They also had a more-modern fridge and chest freezer in the basement. Honestly, I don't remember how they differentiated them, vocabulary-wise.

There was an actual Radar Range microwave, although I don't know the vintage. Old enough for a mechanical timer and a bell to ring when it was done.

Grandma was a home baker (especially cookies at Christmas), so she certainly had all the classic equipment, hand and electric egg-beaters, flour sifters, breadbox...yep.

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