I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636 • Hacker News Board

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#41

Post by mgkimsal » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

For anyone who hasn't read the letter...

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/...

Trump administration is both demanding a end to all DEI programs, and mandating "viewpoint diversity".

"Every department or field found to lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by hiring a critical mass of new faculty within that department or field who will provide viewpoint diversity; every teaching unit found to lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by admitting a critical mass of students who will provide viewpoint diversity. If the review finds that the existing faculty in the relevant department or field are not capable of hiring for viewpoint diversity, or that the relevant teaching unit is not capable of admitting a critical mass of students with diverse viewpoints, hiring or admissions within that department, field, or teaching unit shall be transferred to the closest cognate department, field, or teaching unit that is capable of achieving viewpoint diversity."

But... you also can't have any DEI programs.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #39

rofo1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not up to date on all details, but how exactly is it overreach? It's a good question whether government should give money (9bn but I could be wrong) for research, but lets put that aside for now. (who determines what "research" is this? it could be quantum mechanics, or it could be "gender studies") Curious as to why do you think this is an overreach.

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/... Did you read the demands? "By August 2025, the University must adopt and implement merit-based hiring policies, and cease all preferences based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin throughout its hiring, promotion, compensation, and related practices among faculty, staff, and leadership. Such adoption and implementation must be durable and d…

> cease all preferences based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin

But! Also! "The University shall commission an external party, which shall satisfy the federal government as to its competence and good faith, to audit the student body, faculty, staff, and leadership for viewpoint diversity, such that each department, field, or teaching unit must be individually viewpoint diverse."

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#43

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

rofo1 wrote: post #23

nkassis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why they needed to be the one to fight, if they folded no one else had a chance to stop this government overreach.

I am not up to date on all details, but how exactly is it overreach? It's a good question whether government should give money (9bn but I could be wrong) for research, but lets put that aside for now. (who determines what "research" is this? it could be quantum mechanics, or it could be "gender studies") Curious as to why do you think this is an overreach.

[deleted]

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#44

Post by mgkimsal » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:04 PM UTC

xnx wrote: post #29

The administration is only using "anti-semitism" as an excuse because they didn't think of blaming fentanyl first.

That may come up at some point, because we all 'know' campuses are hotbeds of illegal drug use.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:04 PM UTC

like_any_other wrote: post #35

Glad Harvard finally decided attacks against academia have gone too far. It wasn't too far when scientists were forced to make an ideological oath to diversity to get hired [1,2], when they were hired primarily based on adherence to that ideology [3,4,5], when they were told by major scientific publications to avoid or simply not publish studies that might question that ideology [6,7], when they disavowed studies bas…

Which of your links apply to Harvard? The first is in respect of the University of California.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#46

Post by jl6 » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

Good to see someone call out both the government authoritarianism and the academic echo chambers that precipitated it. Clean hands are in short supply here.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#47

Post by kombine » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #36

kombine wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previous status quo was absolutely unjustified, therefore brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson.

> brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson Do you have an example? Israel-Palestine is a nuanced ground truth that has been ridiculously oversimplified in American discourse. "Pro Israel" covers folks who want to kill every Palestinian and annex their land to those who just don't want kids slaughtered at raves. "Pro Palestine" cove…

> Do you have an example?

If you lived under the rock the entire 2024, here is one:

https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDom...

> the 20-year-old Israeli who’s now in notoriously antisemitic Malmö, Sweden

It's because of Aaronson and others that the original meaning of antisemitism almost entirely lost its meaning. They perverted it to suit their political agenda.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#48

Post by mgkimsal » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42

mgkimsal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/... Did you read the demands? "By August 2025, the University must adopt and implement merit-based hiring policies, and cease all preferences based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin throughout its hiring, promotion, compensation, and related practices among faculty, staff, and leadership. Such adoption and implementation must be durable and d…

> cease all preferences based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin But! Also! "The University shall commission an external party, which shall satisfy the federal government as to its competence and good faith, to audit the student body, faculty, staff, and leadership for viewpoint diversity, such that each department, field, or teaching unit must be individually viewpoint diverse."

Yeah, I made another comment about that.

Cease all DEI programs, but we require 'viewpoint diversity'...

"Every department or field found to lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by hiring a critical mass of new faculty within that department or field who will provide viewpoint diversity; every teaching unit found to lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by admitting a critical mass of students who will provide viewpoint diversity. If the review finds that the existing faculty in the relevant department or field are not capable of hiring for viewpoint diversity, or that the relevant teaching unit is not capable of admitting a critical mass of students with diverse viewpoints, hiring or admissions within that department, field, or teaching unit shall be transferred to the closest cognate department, field, or teaching unit that is capable of achieving viewpoint diversity."

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#49

Post by amazingamazing » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #10

amazingamazing wrote: post #6

Private colleges shouldn't be taking public money to begin with. Hopefully this ends with colleges having their (private college) tax exempt status revoked. Anyone who's been to Massachusetts knows how much real estate Harvard (and MIT, and BU, and Boston College, etc, etc.) owns. Why should they be tax exempt? End it now. Also, Trump's demands are silly and not even internally consistent.

They are both colleges (educational institutions) and research institutions. For decades or more, research in the USA has been a central function of government (although it also happens in a few entirely privately funded organizations). That's what (most) of the public money is for, and there is no sane reason to stop that.

Public colleges can monopolize the research funded with public money.

Re: I speak at Harvard as it faces its biggest crisis since 1636

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

kombine wrote: post #47

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson Do you have an example? Israel-Palestine is a nuanced ground truth that has been ridiculously oversimplified in American discourse. "Pro Israel" covers folks who want to kill every Palestinian and annex their land to those who just don't want kids slaughtered at raves. "Pro Palestine" cove…

> Do you have an example? If you lived under the rock the entire 2024, here is one: https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDom... > the 20-year-old Israeli who’s now in notoriously antisemitic Malmö, Sweden It's because of Aaronson and others that the original meaning of antisemitism almost entirely lost its meaning. They perverted it to suit their political agenda.

Do you have an example of student being called an antisemite by Aaronson?