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Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

seattletimes.com

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Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#201

Post by budro »

Jensson wrote: post #180
parpfish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt be be surprised if there’s already a “relationship free” movement/group/trend similar to “childfree”.

There is, it is called MGTOW.

Vibes are totally different though. People go childfree by choice, whereas men go MGTOW because there __is no other choice__ (that they find easy or preferable). I've heard it described before as "men sent their own way (MSTOW)", which is fitting since one usually identifies with the label after many unsuccessful relationships.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#202

Post by [deleted] »

ethbr1 wrote: post #197
jandrewrogers wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because you're coming across with talk radio / TikTok vibes. Really? That’s what you’ve got? I’ve seen examples of this in Silicon Valley going back to the 1990s. A prenup is not reliable and loads of people don’t have one in any case. Unlike not getting married, there is significant social pressure against prenups. If you actually care the path of least resistance is to not get married. It is quite difficult to ge…

I meant you sound like rants on talk radio and TikTok. If you cited more examples and laws, and relied less on drawn out appeals to emotion, I'd be more inclined to take what you're saying seriously.

[deleted]

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#203

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

pfdietz wrote: post #199
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes our behaviors don’t shift in response to our environment though. The main issue with birthrates is the very real incoming demographic collapse, not a complete population collapse.

"We shouldn't consider your solution because there may be other solutions."

I want the other solutions that will inevitably arise, likely as the sum total of many individuals’ organic actions, because I believe they render your solution unnecessary and would have less unpredictable negative externalities.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#204

Post by Dracophoenix »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #25

Anecdotally, among the people I know in Seattle, many people who have happily been in the same relationship for decades are not married. People are not avoiding long-term relationships, they are avoiding the baggage and fairly rigid assumptions that comes with state intervention in their relationships. There is zero social pressure to be “officially” married so people have no reason to do it for the sake of social co…

> People are not avoiding long-term relationships, they are avoiding the baggage and fairly rigid assumptions that comes with state intervention in their relationships.

Unfortunately, avoiding paper marriage is insufficient to avoid such intervention in the state of Washington (with its Committed Intimate Relationship doctrine) or states where a cohabitant may be legally entitled to "palimony".

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#205

Post by jb1991 »

diogocp wrote: post #173
jb1991 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do get your point, marriage is so deeply ingrained into the legal and financial systems of the U.S. that I think many can't help but subconsciously attach these things that really should be independent. Marriage unlocks a wide range of legal and financial benefits: access to a spouse’s health insurance, favorable tax treatment (like joint filing and estate tax breaks), and legal protections such as hospital v…

> In many other countries, marriage is not attached to these things. Care to name one? What you described is basically how marriage works in my corner of Europe.

In some European countries, for example, many of these protections are granted by physically living together, not by getting married.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#206

Post by spiderxxxx »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #135
graemep wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not really understand that. Why would people have to start again from zero? What sort of "forced loss of agency" happens? Are there laws allowing people to stop their spouse from running an existing business?

It comes from an ancient legal regime called “community property” inherited from the Spanish in the southwestern US. The details of what is within legal scope and how it is handled varies significantly with jurisdiction. In most cases the loss of ownership independence also comes with a loss of management independence — your spouse can get involved and has veto power. Assets that are out of scope can bleed into scope…

Washington has "committed intimate relationship" which does confer community property and is similar to a "common law marriage" so if people think that being in a long term relationship and not getting married is a way to "protect their property" then that's a fallacy.

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#208

Post by AndrewKemendo »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #137
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #75

I was married for 11 years, had three children and am happily divorced. I’m glad I got married and I’m just as glad I was able to get a divorce. What’s overwhelmingly changed in my lifetime (since 1980) is that young adult people would rather be alone with no children than take the risk on being unhappy or getting a divorce. The single biggest change is that the average sentiment now in the “global-west” is “why shou…

We were never gonna scale our population much further anyways. Arguably, the social changes we’ve seen could be a response to our reaching a (very approximate) carrying capacity and experiencing friction against further growth in myriad ways. That’s the way I’ve been thinking about it at least. > That wasn’t previously really an option for most people - for a lot of structural reasons. I’d be interested to hear more…

Effectively what the other response said.

Women in the US were effectively treated like second class citizens across the board and were not permitted to have any kind of independence.

The history of sexism in humans is pretty disturbing and creates a foundational schism in the structure and coherence of society.

The concept of equality and “freedom of opportunity” or “freedom from oppression” is unfortunately not something humans have ever functionally been able to demonstrate (at least in any way that transmits to other cultures or generations)

Re: Half the men in Seattle are never-married singles, census data shows

#209

Post by trollbridge »

api wrote: post #115
trollbridge wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, this pattern of human settlement is silly. Cities used to be hospitable to families, often with multiple generations living in them. Instead of needing a daycare and lots of miles in a car, grandparents and relatives were nearby to help with young children. On the other hand, forcing people outside of the city to afford a family means more GDP from building roads, selling tyres, replacing cars, petrol sale…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_rent Cities tend to be vulnerable to this effect, which ruins them for long term family and wealth building (which are closely related things). Cars are only incidentally about transportation. A car is a machine that offers leverage in property markets. That’s its primary function. They do move you around but if I could get around without one I’d prefer it that way. The only ant…

Don’t cities usually have less restrictive zoning than exurbs (particularly parking requirements)?

The reasons I hear young families move out of cities are cost, school quality, and crime. I don’t think unrestricted zoning and construction would help much with that.

And no, I don’t blame cars - they’re a symptom of the fact cities get hollowed out to just be a zone where there are some cool bars and restaurants to go to.

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