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GPT-4.1 in the API

openai.com

211–220 of 513 posts

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#211
post #203

don't miss that OAI also published a prompting guide WITH RECEIPTS for GPT 4.1 specifically for those building agents... with a new recommendation for: - telling the model to be persistent (+20%) - dont self-inject/parse toolcalls (+2%) - prompted planning (+4%) - JSON BAD - use XML or arxiv 2406.13121 (GDM format) - put instructions + user query at TOP -and- BOTTOM - bottom-only is VERY BAD - no evidence that ALL CA…

I'm surprised and a little disappointed by the result concerning instructions at the top, because it's incompatible with prompt caching: I would much rather cache the part of the prompt that includes the long document and then swap out the user question at the end.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true. I’m a layman and 4.5 is obviously better than 4o for me, definitely enough to matter.

You are definitely not a layman if you know the difference between 4.5 and 4o. The average user thinks ai = openai = chatgpt.

Well, okay, but I'm certainly not an expert who knows the fine differences between all the models available on chat.com. So I'm somewhere between your definition of "layman" and your definition of "expert" (as are, I suspect, most people on this forum).

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#213
The better the benchmarks, the worse the model is. Subjectively for me the more advanced models dont follow instructions, and are less capable of implementing features or building stuff. I could not tell a difference in blind testing SOTA models gemini, claude, openai, deepseek. There has been no major improvements in the LLM space since the original models gained popularity. Each release claims to be much better the last, and every time i have been disappointed and think this is worse.

First it was the models stopped putting in effort and felt lazy, tell it to do something and it will tell you to do it your self. Now its the opposite and the models go ham changing everything they see, instead of changing one line, SOTA models rather rewrite the whole project and still not fix the issue.

Two years back I totally thought these models are amazing. I always would test out the newest models and would get hyped up about it. Every problem i had i thought if i just prompt it differently I can get it to solve this. Often times i have spent hours prompting starting new chats, adding more context. Now i realize its kinda useless and its better to just accept the models where they are, rather then try and make them a one stop shop, or try to stretch capabilities.

I think this release I won’t even test it out, im not interested anymore. I’ll probably just continue using deepseek free, and gemini free. I canceled my openai subscription like 6 months ago, and canceled claude after 3.7 disappointment.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#214
post #138
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better on AIME '24, Multilingual MMLU, SWE-bench, Aider’s polyglot, MMMU, ComplexFuncBench while being much much cheaper and smaller.

and it's worse on just as many benchmarks by a significant amount. as a consumer I don't care about cheapness, I want the maximum accuracy and performance

As a consumer you care about speed tho, and GPT-4.5 is extremely slow, at this point just use a reasoning model if you want the best of the best.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#215
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Btw, as someone who agrees with your point, what’s the actual answer to this?

Of these, some are mostly obsolete: GPT-4 and GPT-4 Turbo are worse than GPT-4o in both speed and capabilities. o1 is worse than o3-mini-high in most aspects. Then, some are not available yet: o3 and o4-mini. GPT-4.1 I haven't played with enough to give you my opinion on. Among the rest, it depends on what you're looking for: Multi-modal: GPT-4o > everything else Reasoning: o1-pro > o3-mini-high > o3-mini Speed: GPT-…

Is 4.5 not strictly better than 4o?

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely an issue. Even the simplest use case of "create React app with Vite and Tailwind" is broken with these models right now because they're not up to date.

By "broken" you mean it doesn't use the latest and greatest hot trend, right? Or does it literally not work?

Periodically I keep trying these coding models in Copilot and I have yet to have an experience where it produced working code with a pretty straightforward TypeScript codebase. Specifically, it cannot for the life of it produce working Drizzle code. It will hallucinate methods that don't exist despite throwing bright red type errors. Does it even check for TS errors?

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#217
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 73% on the current leaderboard is using "diff", not "whole". (Well, diff-fenced, but the difference is just the location of the filename.)

Huh, seems like Aider made a special mode specifically for Gemini[1] some time after Google's announcement blog post with official performance numbers. Still not sure it makes sense to quote that new score next to the others. In any case Gemini's 69% is the top score even without a special mode. [1] https://aider.chat/docs/more/edit-formats.html#diff-fenced:~...

The mode wasn't added after the announcement, Aider has had it for almost a year: https://aider.chat/HISTORY.html#aider-v0320

This benchmark has an authoritative source of results (the leaderboard), so it seems obvious that it's the number that should be used.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#218

Did some quick tests. I believe its the same model as Quasar. It struggles with agentic loop [1]. You'd have to force it to do tool calls. Tool use ability feels ability better than gemini-2.5-pro-exp [2] which struggles with JSON schema understanding sometimes. Llama 4 has suprising agentic capabilities, better than both of them [3] but isn't as intelligent as the others. [1] https://github.com/rusiaaman/chat.md/blo…

Correct. They've mentioned the name during the live announcement - https://www.youtube.com/live/kA-P9ood-cE?si=GYosi4FtX1YSAujE...

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#219
post #75

Are there any benchmarks or someone who did tests of performance of using this long max token models in scenarios where you actually use more of this token limit? I found from my experience with Gemini models that after ~200k that the quality drops and that it basically doesn't keep track of things. But I don't have any numbers or systematic study of this behavior. I think all providers who announce increased max tok…

The problem is that while you can train a model with the hyperparameter of "context size" set to 1M, there's very little 1M data to train on. Most of your model's ability to follow long context comes from the fact that it's trained on lots of (stolen) books; in fact I believe OpenAI just outright said in court that they can't do long context without training on books. Novels are usually measured in terms of words; an…

codebases of high quality open source projects and their major dependencies are probably another good source. also: "transformative fair use", not "stolen"

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#220
post #203

don't miss that OAI also published a prompting guide WITH RECEIPTS for GPT 4.1 specifically for those building agents... with a new recommendation for: - telling the model to be persistent (+20%) - dont self-inject/parse toolcalls (+2%) - prompted planning (+4%) - JSON BAD - use XML or arxiv 2406.13121 (GDM format) - put instructions + user query at TOP -and- BOTTOM - bottom-only is VERY BAD - no evidence that ALL CA…

references for all the above + added more notes here on pricing https://x.com/swyx/status/1911849229188022278

and we'll be publishing our 4.1 pod later today https://www.youtube.com/@latentspacepod

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