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BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#161
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the comment several levels up said they were demoing time with a single tower.

You can get time with a single tower, but not location.

How do you know time of flight for the signal? Tower sends its coordinates, client uses GPS?

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#162
post #125
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you can't innovate, financialize.

But what even is the business case here? I get the idea of encrypting pay TV, but isn't the entire point of free broadcast TV that it's... free? It would be a different story if the DRM were available ubiquitously, e.g. in the way that arguably Widevine is for online streaming (but certainly not broadcast TV). Are rightholders that afraid of unauthorized out-of-market rebroadcasts that they'd rather obliterate their…

Free as in beer. See what happened to Aereo.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... and that's one of the most innocuous new "features" in ATSC 3.0. Almost everything I've seen (besides BPS, and maybe HDR if you're one of the few who has a really good home theater setup) is a benefit for broadcasters and advertisers, and a bit worse for consumers (especially requiring new hardware/decoders... and sometimes persistent Internet connections!).

Same feeling here. ATSC 3.0 with DRM and persistent Internet requirements tells me this is going to be the downfall of OTA television. I can see ATSC 4.0 being a discounted ISP subscription paired with some OTA location checks via BPS.

This is so user-hostile that I don't believe there will be any adoption. It will have to be shoved down the throat of those who use broadcast, which are overwhelmingly older and more remote.

ATSC first generation will probably outlive this DRM-driven abomination.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#164
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that is on the edge of coverage and has lots of hills. On ATSC 1.0, CBS is hard to pick up. Frequently unwatchable - which means unreliable for sports. I picked up an HDHomerun Flex 4K a few years ago. Basically the same week that ATSC 3.0 went live. For a few weeks it was glorious. I had no problem picking up CBS (it was broadcast from the same antenna as ATSC 1.0 - so it was the modulation that wa…

>During severe weather, we often lose Internet and power (which knocks out cable TV too). Requiring working internet to watch TV to monitor the progress of a tornado in your area seems stupid and dangerous. Just listen to radio?

Radio can work, but again, I’m on the edge of reception areas and the hills make picking up FM and AM inconsistent.

In the event of a truly severe weather event (the ones where they hit the alert to make every cell phone go off), the visuals provided by television are hugely helpful.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that is on the edge of coverage and has lots of hills. On ATSC 1.0, CBS is hard to pick up. Frequently unwatchable - which means unreliable for sports. I picked up an HDHomerun Flex 4K a few years ago. Basically the same week that ATSC 3.0 went live. For a few weeks it was glorious. I had no problem picking up CBS (it was broadcast from the same antenna as ATSC 1.0 - so it was the modulation that wa…

I have an older HDHomerun - it's great! Most of the 3.0 stations in my area are already encrypted so I haven't bothered to upgrade

I’ve had a couple of the original, the prime, extend, and now the Flex 4K. They’ve all been terrific devices. The extend was a little wonky because transcoding goes wonky on bad signals, but generally great.

They’re all a huge improvement over older cards like the pcHDTV or the really old Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 that I fought with for Freevo and MythTV so long ago. The switch to Channels was a huge quality of life improvement too.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#166
post #136
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcast TV after the digital rollout was so bad many people just stopped watching TV. Picking it up is such a hassle it's simply not worth the effort for some ad laden TV. At the time of the switchover in the early 2000s I lived about 40 miles from a major metropolitan area, Minneapolis, which is pretty close in US terms. We spent hundreds of dollars on different antennas (indoor and outdoor) and signal boosters an…

> Broadcast TV after the digital rollout was so bad many people just stopped watching TV. That is the first time I've heard that. Everything I've heard has been positive - people amazed that others aren't doing it. Are there any numbers on user satisfaction? I used it myself once or twice and it worked simply with antennas that were relatively cheap ( > The people who live close enough to the broadcasts to pick it up…

> I used it myself once or twice and it worked simply with antennas that were relatively cheap (I don’t know about Minneapolis is particular, but 40 miles is far enough that it gets tricky, and in my Canadian city, I’m close to the towers as the crow flies, but in the RF shadow of a huge hill - so I’d actually get better reception if I was further away from the broadcast towers.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#167
post #132
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is US ATSC 3.0 so bad? It is nearly a decade since it was South Korea have it deployed and operational. The standard itself is no longer "next gen". Brazil's TV 3.0, also uses ATSC 3.0 is so much better in every aspect. Even if someone mandate it as requirement for TV sold next year all the tech inside are at least 10 years old ( HEVC ? ) . Not to mention the roll out time. Do Americans only watch Cables and Netf…

Broadcast TV after the digital rollout was so bad many people just stopped watching TV. Picking it up is such a hassle it's simply not worth the effort for some ad laden TV. At the time of the switchover in the early 2000s I lived about 40 miles from a major metropolitan area, Minneapolis, which is pretty close in US terms. We spent hundreds of dollars on different antennas (indoor and outdoor) and signal boosters an…

I live in downtown Chicago and get tons of channels, despite no line of sight due to buildings in the way. Though they tend to go out when the El passes by.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#168
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my understanding as well. You can see the usage-reporting scheme and data structure here: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A333-2024-04... “The fundamental record that captures consumption information is called a Consumption Data Unit (CDU). For a streaming A/V channel, each CDU identifies a reporting interval during which a service is accessed. Such a CDU includes the service identifier, the t…

> 5 – Alternate IP delivery (content component is delivered via intermediary) Ok, this is entirely paranoid conspiracy theory rumblings at this point, but why does this sound like a way to catch unlicensed rebroadcasters?

Honestly that sounds pretty congruent with thinking about the spec from the position of the authors. Like what is the difference between "local time shift buffer" and "local hard drive" if it isn't some contractual authorization aspect they're pushing? Especially when you think that this standard is going to be deployed on TVs that will likely be displaying video from other sources than just broadcast.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#169
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As t0mas88 said, you don't rely on the measured speed of the aircraft/ship, you rely on gyroscopes (which are much more resistant to external factors), and both clocks and gyroscopes have improved signifcantly (clocks are now better than cesium atoms - read about atomic clocks) and so are gyroscopes (again, optical gyroscopes that are miles better than mechanical ones).

Portable clocks are not better than static caesium clocks, and optical clocks which are better than caesium clocks are not portable.

Eh, not smartphone-like portable, sure, but publicly (https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2025/03/c0945eb14bb6-japa...) it can now be fitted on a ship or submarine (and I won't be surprised if there is classified miniturization out there).

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#170
post #154
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Return on investment" isn't using uncommon words to try to be hard to interpret, it's a standard business term in English-speaking countries. The fact that it seemed like its intention was to obfuscate is just a sign that you're not familiar with basic business terminology, nothing more. (And there's no shame in that, nobody knows the common phrases in every area of society, if you've never taken any business classe…

In case you're only accidentally missing the point and not just being an asshole: I would expect most people to have heard the term ROI before. I would not expect most people to understand the ways in which a bi-directional data path can turn into money. I definitely wouldn't expect most people to understand that it will involve compromising their privacy to spy on their viewing habits in a way that the last 100 year…

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