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Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

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Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#71

Post by nottorp »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #69
nottorp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have the obsession everyone has for the few remaining animals on earth, and the race to own at least a replica. Electric sheep are just a background detail in the movie, while they're as central as hunting the replicants in the book... I'd also like the scene where Deckard runs into another blade runner agency, further complicating the question if he's a replicant or not :)

Yeah, the film could have had more content about the real/artificial animals though it did feature a bit with the snake scales and the owl. Also agree about meeting the other agency though I can imagine that would have complicated the plot a bit (disclaimer - I haven't read Androids for many years and can't remember the details of that scene). I just think that Mercerism was a superb concept - a participatory religio…

> can't remember the details of that scene

Deckard gets arrested by a different police agency - they think they're the only ones, just like Deckard's agency. He gets accused of being an android with implanted memories.

They administer Voigt-Kampf tests to each other and while everyone ends up as human, the scene serves to make who's human and who isn't even more of a question.

What really ticks me off about all movies made from Dick's writings is that they cut off most of the ambiguity.

I shudder to think what they'd make of Ubik or A Maze of Death...

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#72

Post by p0w3n3d »

trwired wrote: post #41
p0w3n3d wrote: post #28

As far as I know Stanisław Lem was not allowed to like anything from US. These days the soviet propaganda in Poland disallowed people to like anything that came from "the rotten west"

> As far as I know Stanisław Lem was not allowed to like anything from US. These days the soviet propaganda in Poland disallowed people to like anything that came from "the rotten west" Such statement would hold somewhat true for the Soviet Union until the 80s, but not for Poland, whose society never stopped seeing itself as a part of wider European community, and because of significant migration in the XIX and XX ce…

What I'm saying that writers were clearly forbidden by the communist powers to look towards west. Those were cancelled subjects, and cancel would be the least punishment there available. That's why everything that was written against the censorship bureau, would be covered by an allegory blanket, and writers were often asked to remove parts of they could be deciphered by the censor officials. Of course later on the iron hand of authorities was loosening and more and more forbidden words were tolerated, up to the 1989 Round Table event when Poland was freed (not before strong military repression happening in 1981)

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#73

Post by shervinafshar »

csours wrote: post #45
philistine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philip K. Dick was vindictive, continually broke, terrible at titles, unlucky, and a wonderful writer. He never had a happy ending.

Are those even his titles? Authors generally don't make up the title themselves. Sometimes they can help pick one from a list created by a title editor.

Most of the above are his titles. Some which were published in serialized form before being published in a single volume (Martian Time-Slip and We Can Build You) had different titles. Letters, manuscripts, and publication notes are helpful to shed some light on this matter; e.g. The Transmigration of Timothy Archer was regularly referred to as the "Archer novel" or "Bishop Timothy Archer".

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#74

Post by jzb »

noisefridge wrote: post #62
bookofjoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

I'm curious why you like these so much as titles. Tastes differ, but in my opinion, "A Scanner Darkly" is the only standout winner here. Without knowing anything of what the story was about, would "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" convey anything important to the reader? Even as a standalone metaphor it's confused: humans don't dream about sheep! There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's…

A title doesn’t have to do anything other than draw the reader’s attention to the work. “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?” is, IMO a great title — and it does relate to the humanity of the androids.

It’s a far superior title compared to “Blade Runner,” which is actually better than the book.

Anyway, I’d say that the fact we’re still talking about his work nearly 50 years after his death suggests he might not have sucked at titles…

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#75

Post by benatkin »

noisefridge wrote: post #62
bookofjoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

I'm curious why you like these so much as titles. Tastes differ, but in my opinion, "A Scanner Darkly" is the only standout winner here. Without knowing anything of what the story was about, would "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" convey anything important to the reader? Even as a standalone metaphor it's confused: humans don't dream about sheep! There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's…

> There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's not a dream.

How about when people dream about what they were thinking about when they fell asleep? It happens.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#76

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

nottorp wrote: post #71
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the film could have had more content about the real/artificial animals though it did feature a bit with the snake scales and the owl. Also agree about meeting the other agency though I can imagine that would have complicated the plot a bit (disclaimer - I haven't read Androids for many years and can't remember the details of that scene). I just think that Mercerism was a superb concept - a participatory religio…

> can't remember the details of that scene Deckard gets arrested by a different police agency - they think they're the only ones, just like Deckard's agency. He gets accused of being an android with implanted memories. They administer Voigt-Kampf tests to each other and while everyone ends up as human, the scene serves to make who's human and who isn't even more of a question. What really ticks me off about all movie…

I'd love them to get around to attempting Ubik - it's a shame that Gondry abandoned his attempt.

In terms of ambiguity, surely Blade Runner is a prime example of ambiguity and the dichotomies between real/fake, light/dark, salvation/damnation, hunter/hunter etc. There's also the very significant portrayal of Roy Batty as both the villain and a Christ-like figure (e.g. nail in his hand, confronting his maker and both kissing and killing him).

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#77

Post by Trasmatta »

hx8 wrote: post #68
Trasmatta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my all time favorite books! The Empire never ended.

I haven't thought about Valis in a long time, but I do generally tend to label various people/organizations as "The Empire". I didn't realize how much that book stuck with me.

I'd recommend a re-read! There's so many layers to that story that show themselves only on subsequent readings. Much like the layered flow of PKD the author, PKD the character, and Horselover Fat.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#78

Post by tehjoker »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #72
trwired wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I know Stanisław Lem was not allowed to like anything from US. These days the soviet propaganda in Poland disallowed people to like anything that came from "the rotten west" Such statement would hold somewhat true for the Soviet Union until the 80s, but not for Poland, whose society never stopped seeing itself as a part of wider European community, and because of significant migration in the XIX and XX ce…

What I'm saying that writers were clearly forbidden by the communist powers to look towards west. Those were cancelled subjects, and cancel would be the least punishment there available. That's why everything that was written against the censorship bureau, would be covered by an allegory blanket, and writers were often asked to remove parts of they could be deciphered by the censor officials. Of course later on the i…

In the "west" currently, you are not allowed to publish anything looking favorably "east" in a serious way on mainstream networks. You have to call everything a "dictatorship". You are (maybe not anymore soon?) allowed to publish things at the margins of society that few will read or watch, hence the claim of free speech within a wider propaganda system.

Sometimes they allow things to rise and present themselves as alternative media, but the ones that get wide broadcast (millions of views etc) almost always have a built-in limit that supports US interests implicitly, particularly with respect to foreign policy.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#79

Post by gambiting »

troupo wrote: post #54
emtel wrote: post #29

Stanislaw Lem was far too much of a genius to believe his works were directed by any sort of committee, communist or otherwise. He is still overlooked far too much - people seem to regard Solaris as his only work of note. But he has so works, all bizarre, imaginative, and insightful. Fiasco and His Master’s Voice are two of my lesser known favorites.

The Invincible, Solaris, and Eden all deal with the question "what if aliens are truly alien, and we cannot find any points of contact with them?" Even his lighter work (Cyberiad, Ijon Tichy) is very insightful

And outside of Sci-Fi he was still an absolute powerhouse. "Hospital of Transfiguration" is an absolutely haunting novel that you will keep thinking about for months later if not years, and "Journals found in a bathtub" is on a different level.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#80

Post by gambiting »

DonHopkins wrote: post #50

An EPIC scene from "The Congress" (2014) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMI8HWhqEc The Congress (2013) Scan Scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPAl5GwvdY8 HN thread about "Bruce Willis Sells Deepfake Likeness Rights So His 'Twin' Can Star in Movies" and The Congress discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33044479 >According to director Ari Folman, some elements of the film were inspired by the science…

I love Lem's work and I can't stand this film lol, it's just.....complete nonsense. And yeah, I have never done psychodelics, maybe that's why.
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