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Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

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Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#61

Post by DonHopkins »

bookofjoe wrote: post #30
philistine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philip K. Dick was vindictive, continually broke, terrible at titles, unlucky, and a wonderful writer. He never had a happy ending.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

In case you were curious, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch:

1) A mechanical right hand

2) Artificial steel teeth

3) Electronic, glowing eyes

The Android Sisters answer the question "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP8bOqTAco0

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#62

Post by noisefridge »

bookofjoe wrote: post #30
philistine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philip K. Dick was vindictive, continually broke, terrible at titles, unlucky, and a wonderful writer. He never had a happy ending.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

I'm curious why you like these so much as titles. Tastes differ, but in my opinion, "A Scanner Darkly" is the only standout winner here.

Without knowing anything of what the story was about, would "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" convey anything important to the reader? Even as a standalone metaphor it's confused: humans don't dream about sheep! There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's not a dream.

In any case, we're now thinking about sheep, not a noir detective story set in a declining post-biosphere world.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#63

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

stonogo wrote: post #47
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and as far as I know Stanisław Lem was also genuinely contemptuous of the 1950s default style of US sci-fi: square-jawed heroes who triumph over every puzzle, right every wrong; Cowboys and Indians on a frontier planet, manifest destiny, etc. A lot of his work emphasises how this tendency fails in the face of the sheer unknowable alienness of the outer universe. e.g. Solaris, The Invincible, Fiasco. Lem liked Ph…

I'm sure you know this, but for those who might not, US sci-fi was just as varied as anywhere else... except in the domain of John W. Campbell, for decades the editor of the biggest-circulation sci-fi magazine in the country, where he very much explicitly selected for that kind of story. Lots of famous authors active in the era have tales of how they edited their work to meet Campbells demands -- I recall one where t…

Yes, indeed. I was thinking of the pulp magazines, and also to an extent the Original Series of Star Trek.

See Jeannette Ng's "2019 John W. Campbell Award" acceptance speech on the topic, and commentary that followed.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#64

Post by nottorp »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #48
nottorp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you imagine if Blade Runner retained the title of the work it was derived from? ... or even some parts of the plot ... It would have been more interesting than the shooting based thriller we got instead.

I'm a big fan of PKD and also Blade Runner. You've got a point about the film being so very different, but I think it's subsequent success (it wasn't that successful at the time) justifies the approach to the subject matter. However I do wish that Mercerism (the religion in the book) was included in the film. Maybe someone should attempt to film a more literal adaptation. Edit: thinking about the difference between t…

I'd rather have the obsession everyone has for the few remaining animals on earth, and the race to own at least a replica. Electric sheep are just a background detail in the movie, while they're as central as hunting the replicants in the book...

I'd also like the scene where Deckard runs into another blade runner agency, further complicating the question if he's a replicant or not :)

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#66

Post by hx8 »

noisefridge wrote: post #62
bookofjoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

I'm curious why you like these so much as titles. Tastes differ, but in my opinion, "A Scanner Darkly" is the only standout winner here. Without knowing anything of what the story was about, would "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" convey anything important to the reader? Even as a standalone metaphor it's confused: humans don't dream about sheep! There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's…

I think Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said is a great title.

It sets up the narrative style and loads the gun for a incoming tragedy.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#67

Post by ahazred8ta »

0_____0 wrote: post #37
bookofjoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

They do retain their power because of the notoriety of the stories they head. It's a matter of taste and thus hard to argue, but I do think his titles were kind of clunky. Can you imagine if Blade Runner retained the title of the work it was derived from?

Irony: the original bladerunner novel was about a courier carrying surgical instruments so that the doctor would not be arrested for black market medical treatment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bladerunner

FWIW I was a Galactic Pot-Healer fan.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#68

Post by hx8 »

Trasmatta wrote: post #18
munchler wrote: post #10

> This plot [about an intelligent beam of light] wouldn’t be out of place in one of Dick’s mind-bending novels. This experience was, in fact, the basis of a novel he wrote called _Valis_.

One of my all time favorite books! The Empire never ended.

I haven't thought about Valis in a long time, but I do generally tend to label various people/organizations as "The Empire". I didn't realize how much that book stuck with me.

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#69

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

nottorp wrote: post #64
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of PKD and also Blade Runner. You've got a point about the film being so very different, but I think it's subsequent success (it wasn't that successful at the time) justifies the approach to the subject matter. However I do wish that Mercerism (the religion in the book) was included in the film. Maybe someone should attempt to film a more literal adaptation. Edit: thinking about the difference between t…

I'd rather have the obsession everyone has for the few remaining animals on earth, and the race to own at least a replica. Electric sheep are just a background detail in the movie, while they're as central as hunting the replicants in the book... I'd also like the scene where Deckard runs into another blade runner agency, further complicating the question if he's a replicant or not :)

Yeah, the film could have had more content about the real/artificial animals though it did feature a bit with the snake scales and the owl.

Also agree about meeting the other agency though I can imagine that would have complicated the plot a bit (disclaimer - I haven't read Androids for many years and can't remember the details of that scene).

I just think that Mercerism was a superb concept - a participatory religion. I suppose it wouldn't have really driven the story forwards in the film whereas almost every scene in the film was doing that.

Incidentally, here's PKD's short story about Mercerism: https://sickmyduck.narod.ru/pkd092-0.html

Re: Philip K. Dick: Stanisław Lem Is a Communist Committee (2015)

#70

Post by parineum »

noisefridge wrote: post #62
bookofjoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... terrible at titles... I disagree. Here are some that retain their power all these decades later and will likely do so for the foreseeable future: Time Out of Joint The Man in the High Castle Martian Time-Slip The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Clans of the Alphane Moon The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (1968)/Blade Runner (1982) Ubik We Can Build You Flow My Tears, The…

I'm curious why you like these so much as titles. Tastes differ, but in my opinion, "A Scanner Darkly" is the only standout winner here. Without knowing anything of what the story was about, would "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" convey anything important to the reader? Even as a standalone metaphor it's confused: humans don't dream about sheep! There is an old trope of counting sheep to fall asleep, but that's…

Isn't the point of a title to get someone to read the book (and not be disappointed by it's contents)?

I get you don't want to name a crime novel like a self help book but the title of the book is really just going to get me to pick it up off the shelf and read the back, not assume the narrative style and complete plot of the book.

Book titles are click bait and always have been.

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