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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#481

Post by globular-toast »

paulcole wrote: post #162
grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

At least in the US people absolutely fucking love their cars. They will lie about how much they hate them but ask them to actually change their behavior and you get nothing but a litany of excuses.

Everyone loves their car, but hates everyone else's cars. Remember, your car is transport, everyone else's cars are traffic.

Saying "people love cars" is false. Some people love cars. Those are the ones doing their own work/maintenance/restorations etc and just spending time in the garage with their cars. A few more people love driving, they don't just love cars for their own sake, but they will go and just drive for fun. But most people don't do any of that. They just use cars as part of their boring, routine lives.

You might as well say US people fucking love washing machines or knives and forks.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#482

Post by epolanski »

FredPret wrote: post #291
epolanski wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I'm quite sure it was brake dust because during COVID 19 lockdowns everything was the same (heating etc) but streets were void of cars. Then I've read some scientific article about brake with pics and it looked exactly as what I got inside my house. I can't conclude 100% it was it (or just it), but it seems to be the most probable cause along tires.

Ah, that's interesting. Although I imagine cars kick up a lot of old-fashioned dirt dust from the road and swoosh up some more of that from the sidewalks as they drive as well.

There was an article on the topic just today on the economist

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/04/11/...

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#484

Post by carlosjobim »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #218
carlosjobim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

The French have got you covered there [0]. There's also plenty of other, more practical / affordable microcars [1] on the road around where I live, they're considered equivalent to mopeds in terms of legality / requirements but you don't need a helmet, they seat two people and some groceries, etc. They used to be mainly popular for elderly people but they seem to catch on to other people too. Great for local traffic.…

What do you think about the Japanese solutions to the problem?

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/standard/cb300r

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#485

Post by epolanski »

flomo wrote: post #295
Vinnl wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't GP specifically complaining about the other half not being able to enjoy the "car-free lifestyle"? (/not be forced to use the car to live their life.)

I'm not unsympathetic, but I don't think a "European who studied at OSU for a semester" really knows what they are talking about.

You might be right, I was just sharing my experience and what I've heard from locals.

Anyway, there's an abundant literature that links inequality with transport opportunities.

But those topics are so touchy for you Americans tbh, it's like arguing about weapons, it's too heated of an argument for rational discourse.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#486

Post by sensanaty »

saltysalt wrote: post #479
flomo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, the working poor generally don't work downtown, and it's really the industrial areas where there is awful transit service. So cheapo used cars are a must for these folks. There is some awful HN bias here where young healthy well-paid tech workers live in some boogie part of SF/NYC/Boston/etc and enjoy the "car-free lifestyle" (and I've been there), without any idea how the other half lives.

You are completely correct about the bias on HN against cars: that will change when they get older and have kids. Not everyone is a young single urbanite working remotely or downtown.

I don't have kids but I do have 4 nephews. They all take their bikes or if not possible for whatever reason, buses/trains/trams/metro to school and elsewhere. My 1 sister lives in the countryside and her kids still take the bike to school, which is ~10km away from their house, and if they go to another city they can take their bikes on the train.

Why wouldn't you want your kid to be independent like this? Why force them to have to rely on you and your car if they want to go out and see their friends? It inconveniences you and makes their life much more dull and restricted, not to mention the health benefits of taking the bike vs sitting in a car for a kid.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#487

Post by floydnoel »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #358
illiac786 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities have a positive environmental impact when you compare it with spreading the same population in villages across thousands of miles. It would be an insane amount of roads, cabling, water pipes, etc. Cities are bad for human health, but good for the environment.

Are they bad for human health compared to other ways of living like rural or suburbs? iirc rural people get the least amount of exercise because you just sit inside all day.

when we lived in the suburbs my family and i spent way more time inside than we do now in a rural setting. i think maybe you got mixed up. rural people are generally very active.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#488

Post by floydnoel »

telotortium wrote: post #174
10-1-100 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting that with modern emissions standards (and transition to EVs), over 50% of handful particulates come from tires, brakes, road surface wear, and resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city, without even considering the more immediate harms from crashes, etc.

> I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city Concentrating humans together into a small locality, which is what a city is, will inherently have a significant environmental impact. Cities before private cars were still quite polluted, because transportation still has to take place just to keep the city running. Electric vehicles are the best-case scenario for truck deliver…

> If you really hate air pollution, move to the country and be willing to sacrifice the advantages of cities.

i really do hate air pollution! it drove me away from idaho, where 2-3 months of the year massive forest fires would choke the air and force everyone inside (gave my kids asthma).

we recently moved away from a suburb near two highways, out to a rural area where we are half a mile from the nearest paved road.

besides the lowered air pollution, the lower noise pollution is a huge benefit. hearing birds instead of traffic is amazing. and my kids don’t choke in their sleep any more!

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#489

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

robocat wrote: post #461
jodrellblank wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " example: a report on the cost-benefit of using bicycles, that comes out with a fantastic positive number for introducing a cycle lane. " Rubber-stamp a multi-billion dollar highway widening project that won't reduce traffic*, no problem, doesn't deserve any comment. Bike lane? Scrutiny with a fine-tooth comb, subject it to years of studies, complain about the cost, complain about why anyone would want a bike lane…

Yeah: I'm totally not a fan of biased car shit either. Some of your examples seem like strawmen to me. > complain about the cost Bike lanes in my country are mostly paid for by taxes on cars and petrol. The costs/benefits are often justified by cherry-picked benefits (e.g. reduced car congestion, or reduced pollution). The congestion arguments anecdotally appear to be lies: low usage priority cycle lanes seem to caus…

The benefits of getting more of the population to cycle are so beneficial that it's a joke to even try comparing the return on investment of cycle lanes versus car infrastructure and of course, when there's lots of cars, it pretty much pushes out other forms of transport due to the size/weight/danger/pollution of the cars.

Here's a somewhat biased look at the economics of cycling:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/briefing/case-cycling-economy

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#490

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

netsharc wrote: post #62
usrusr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighter cars, really, that's it. Make vehicles that match the transportation case in question instead of palaces on wheels that carry battery sized for solving some once in a year use case. And/or make them go slower.

Huh, imagine EVs that have removable add-on batteries that you'd only plug in for the longer trips.. Like the Thinkpads with the "bigger battery" humps: https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_ap/photo/l/lenovo-thi/lenovo-th...

It surprises me how much people are determined to use the "car" form factor when it's clearly not a good design for weight reduction and efficient transport.

If instead people consider EVs that are non-car-shaped then we get things like e-bikes and e-scooters. Both can feature easily swappable batteries as the batteries are so much smaller due to the reduced weight of the vehicle. Also, the problems around congestion can pretty much disappear when you get enough people to use an e-bike/e-scooter instead of a car. The tyre wear/pollution is minimised due to the reduction in weight and similarly the brakes.

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