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CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

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Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#61

Post by NitpickLawyer »

daseiner1 wrote: post #49
neals wrote: post #47

I feel like with all the silly things humans do, every remotely feasible physics experiment should be top priority on getting funding and attention. Isn't finding out how the universe works, by far, the only thing that matters?

i’d imagine food shelter and dignified employment rank just a little higher. in terms of higher-order needs, meaningful connection and love are quite a bit more important to me.

> food shelter and dignified employment

None of those are technological or even theoretical problems, tho. We (humanity as a whole) thoroughly understand all of them. Whatever your post meant with listing them is stemming from politics more than scientific understanding. I don't think there's a politician's head collider out there, but maybe we should build one.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#62

Post by ChadNauseam »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #60
jameskilton wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The utter lack of significant discoveries at the LHC after the Higgs (2012!) is a pretty telling sign. Any bigger collider is riding purely on the hope that something will make the effort worth while.

[flagged]

I don't know anything about high energy physics, but functional programming is carried on the shoulders of LGBT people, and it wouldn't surprise me if other extra-nerdy fields are similar. So I don't see anything wrong with CERN writing a blog post commemorating LGBT people.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#63

Post by exe34 »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #61
daseiner1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’d imagine food shelter and dignified employment rank just a little higher. in terms of higher-order needs, meaningful connection and love are quite a bit more important to me.

> food shelter and dignified employment None of those are technological or even theoretical problems, tho. We (humanity as a whole) thoroughly understand all of them. Whatever your post meant with listing them is stemming from politics more than scientific understanding. I don't think there's a politician's head collider out there, but maybe we should build one.

there was a scene in SG-1 where O'Neill locks up a bunch of aliens in a room and said they would not be released until they came to some agreement.

I always thought there should be a religious army with the entire world's military might, who's central tenet is that they do and decide nothing except enforce what the nations decide - and the nations get to decide in any way they want except violence - but they may choose a champion on each side of a divide, and the champions may hold a knife fight to the death. the army would then enforce the deal of the winner's side.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#64

Post by exe34 »

adrianN wrote: post #58
neals wrote: post #47

I feel like with all the silly things humans do, every remotely feasible physics experiment should be top priority on getting funding and attention. Isn't finding out how the universe works, by far, the only thing that matters?

One can plausibly argue that finding out how the universe works is one of the things that matters least.

only if you have no imagination or want to be 'discovered' and civilised.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#65

Post by exe34 »

77pt77 wrote: post #50
gr_norm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have repeatedly heard from people who work in physics research that she's optimized her content for maximum rage/anger/emotional response rather than accuracy, particularly as of late. The tidbits of truth and warranted skepticism lend the rest of it undue credibility. Sadly, good science reporting doesn't get the advertising revenue that manufactured-scandal tabloid-style reporting does. I think her critical persp…

> her content for maximum rage/anger/emotional response rather than accuracy Yes. The content mirrors the thumbnail style.

I've started to watch one or two videos of hers, but I don't respond very well to emotional rants. So I stopped.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#66

Post by mjevans »

magicalhippo wrote: post #57
kristianp wrote: post #26

It doesn't feel ambitious enough to me. Spend 10s of billions to get a less than 10x energy about 40 years after LHC reached its peak. Also planning of the next one should have happened while the last one was being commissioned to avoid the huge gap between them.

There are those who wants to go larger, by building a submerged collider[1] in the area formerly known as the Gulf of Mexico which could do 500 TeV. Using established technology from offshore industry it's supposedly not as crazy nor costly as one might first imagine. There was a nice and fairly accessible talk[2] given at Perimeter Institute, which gave some background and went into this and the FCC. [1]: https://ar…

The link mentions 100 meters depth. Without being an expert that sounds deep enough to withstand hurricanes and such.

However 100m depth? For a structure _that_ size, which I think might contain high vacuum, let alone systems that might need humans to service when they break? What is the feasibility of that problem?

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#67

Post by f6v »

adrianN wrote: post #58
neals wrote: post #47

I feel like with all the silly things humans do, every remotely feasible physics experiment should be top priority on getting funding and attention. Isn't finding out how the universe works, by far, the only thing that matters?

One can plausibly argue that finding out how the universe works is one of the things that matters least.

There’re so many people who think they already know how it works. And that’s a huge problem.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#68

Post by refulgentis »

Ygg2 wrote: post #11
refulgentis wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sabine is something other-than a good source on how physicists actually think about things at this point, unfortunately. It's not true at all. I'll come back and write some up over the next 20 minutes.

Sabine also have wasn't the only physicist that thinks FCC would be dead on arrival.

Claim: $A made false claims $B and $C to support conclusion $D.

Your claim, IIUC, please correct me: Not all who conclude $D make false claims.

I can agree with that for sure

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#69

Post by XorNot »

mjevans wrote: post #66
magicalhippo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are those who wants to go larger, by building a submerged collider[1] in the area formerly known as the Gulf of Mexico which could do 500 TeV. Using established technology from offshore industry it's supposedly not as crazy nor costly as one might first imagine. There was a nice and fairly accessible talk[2] given at Perimeter Institute, which gave some background and went into this and the FCC. [1]: https://ar…

The link mentions 100 meters depth. Without being an expert that sounds deep enough to withstand hurricanes and such. However 100m depth? For a structure _that_ size, which I think might contain high vacuum, let alone systems that might need humans to service when they break? What is the feasibility of that problem?

Presumably the plan would be you're actually building a the collider tunnel much like CERN under water, so effectively a very long pressure structure. This...probably isn't super-unreasonable for a static structure where you avoid the cost of excavation - i.e. it depends on how different in diameter from something like the Nordstream pipelines you'd be going.

Re: CERN releases report on the feasibility of a possible Future Circular Collider

#70

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #40
anoncareer0212 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lay out above, the IEEE article linked lays out, and you come across to me as having domain knowledge to understand that having electron-positron collisions at the same energy level of LHC lets us nail down the hints of what we saw at LHC -- persistent deviations in the standard model that require new theory. When we get new theory, then we go hunting new particles, presuming its physically possible (as you point o…

I don't care about Sabine and I'm not defending her. There are lots of other people who think this is a bad idea, and Nature has quoted "dozens" of them. The error they saw isn't interesting unless it leads to something. There aren't even good theories about what it might lead to, other than some extra significant figures on some constants that nobody uses. Surely you can see there is a problem with doing science thi…

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