Live data from Hacker News

BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

jeffgeerling.com

11–20 of 179 posts

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#11

While this is is interesting, the "nobody's heard of" phrase is rather condescending and such phrases leave a bad taste in the mind.

Hmm it's just a turn of phrase. I would bet you $100 that no more than 0.001% of the population have heard of BPS. I hadn't. That's functionally "nobody".

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#12

This sounds interesting but it most likely will only be of use in populated areas where there is enough signal overlap from broadcast towers. You’ll still need GPS in the countryside and on water.

In a lot of cities the broadcast towers are concentrated in the same place, I wonder how effective it could be.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#13

>an oscilloscope that costs 3x the value of your car on a trade show floor Typical high end microwave measurement system cost as much as a Ferrari car. Good cable and connectors can set you back by several thousand dollars. It's a very good business space prime for disruption (hint SDR - or software-defined radio). Fun facts, the grand daddy of Silicon Valley start-up is HP (then Agilent, and now Keysight) selling fu…

Interesting. Though he didn't say what kind of car he drives, it could be a real shitter

2007 Toyota Camry. I looked it up, it's actually worth even less than I thought it was haha.

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#15
I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04...

“Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadcasting business which requires a large amount of highly coveted spectrum resources. Intelligent media delivery and flexible service models that maximize the network Return on Investment (ROI) is of paramount importance to the broadcasting industry in the new era.”

That's a lot of fancy words to say ‘we're doing this because it makes us more money’ lol

“Recent studies have shown that interactivity between media customers and service providers and between users themselves will be one of the most important features in the next-generation media service. In this document, this unique opportunity is addressed by defining a Dedicated Return Channel (DRC) system for the next-generation broadcasting system.”

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#16
You don't need ATSC 3.0 to do this kind of thing! The short-term stability of the oscillators they use for commercial DTV transmission is apparently good enough that just having one local reference to compare GPS vs. each TV station's phase (and distribute that data) can produce a pretty good positioning system. Rosum was doing this back in 2005: https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/tv-signals-used-for-geopos...

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#18
post #15

I hope it will still be possible to receive a BPS timing signal privately and anonymously with ATSC 3 like one can with GPS. ATSC 3 has the Dedicated Return Channel because marketers “““need””” to spy on every-fucking-thing we do: https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/A323-2024-04... “Conventional linear TV services alone (albeit ultra-high-definition) may not be sufficient to sustain the terrestrial broadc…

Yeah... and that's one of the most innocuous new "features" in ATSC 3.0.

Almost everything I've seen (besides BPS, and maybe HDR if you're one of the few who has a really good home theater setup) is a benefit for broadcasters and advertisers, and a bit worse for consumers (especially requiring new hardware/decoders... and sometimes persistent Internet connections!).

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#19

https://www.nab.org/bps/ for people who don't want to watch videos

The OP link is a blog post, which includes links out to the primary resources (much more in depth than the BPS landing page). The video is a byproduct of my conversations at NAB, and both are just preliminary... I've been working on a more in depth look at GPS and BPS (and other alternatives).

Re: BPS is a GPS alternative that nobody's heard of

#20
post #12

This sounds interesting but it most likely will only be of use in populated areas where there is enough signal overlap from broadcast towers. You’ll still need GPS in the countryside and on water.

In a lot of cities the broadcast towers are concentrated in the same place, I wonder how effective it could be.

At least in Europe, when broadcasting went digital (DVB-T), a lot of cities started being covered by single frequency network transmission, which specifically leverages different transmitter locations transmitting the same signal to decrease dead zones.

Due to how OFDM works, I suppose the idea here is to intentionally send a heterogeneous signal on a few non-overlapping subcarriers (for single-frequency networks) or on different transponders at different locations (since single frequency networks aren't as common in the US due to how broadcasting evolved there, although ATSC 3.0 apparently also allows single frequency networks).

Post reply on HN