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Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

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Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#61

Post by [deleted] »

azemetre wrote: post #40
awanderingmind wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good insight, thanks. I've been struggling with existential dread related to https://ai-2027.com/ - trying to refute the arguments is exhausting, I should probably just ignore it and get on with my life.

You’re having existential dread over pure science fiction written by people who have something to gain from LLM companies becoming profitable? You have it right. Just ignore the grifters. These companies are burning billions and are realizing they don’t have an exit strategy so they’re becoming desperate. Just ignore the grifters.

[deleted]

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#62

Post by caseyy »

ranyume wrote: post #31
caseyy wrote: post #23

The "terror of global catastrophe" is what doomscroller media constantly hammers onto its readers. And once someone has "bought in", it's impossible to reason with them. They'll just forever spread anxiety around them. What's interesting is how it happens. Take someone who is mentally stable and subject them to a terminally online lifestyle for a year or two. They will have tons of anxiety about all sorts of things,…

What you just described is an idea that's around intellectual circles about the nature of power in this era. It's the idea behind the book "Ipnocrazia" (not yet released), which gained fame around europe and south america. Citing from the top of my head: "Simulation isn't imitating the real anymore, simulation precedes the real" If I understand it right, tragedy is first simulated. Once the simulation is bought by th…

It sounds a bit like shifting the Overton Window to manufacture consent. I'm sure some people probably tried to do it.

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#63

Post by sysrestartusr »

caseyy wrote: post #23

The "terror of global catastrophe" is what doomscroller media constantly hammers onto its readers. And once someone has "bought in", it's impossible to reason with them. They'll just forever spread anxiety around them. What's interesting is how it happens. Take someone who is mentally stable and subject them to a terminally online lifestyle for a year or two. They will have tons of anxiety about all sorts of things,…

so we are completely ignoring the science, now, ey?

someone always has more data. 50 years for you might be a lot but someone else will tell you they are gone faster than you think.

a) doomers are just buffs, superficial or nerdy.

b) never forget that due to how the web and social hierarchies are build, some people have an ugly information flow, are constantly lied to, and bots flood their feeds with the worst shit just because they had a bit of moment, once.

some people are stilled told EV's are shit, buy a diesel. they are told so by some sort of "authority". or: "don't get a credit for "solar" if you don't have half the money right away" ( even though you'd start to save/make money after 10 years but you don't know math and that person is some sort of "authority" )

the world is full of mostly sub-average competence in positions or with the status of some sort of "authority" and these sub-average competent people, some of them saved and domesticated dogs, absolutely need others to have it worse then them so they will feed them lies whenever those people need advice. and these dogs usually work in collectives.

truthy information flow is imperative but even the German state media slaps incomplete or outright misinformation into their audience brains' all the freaking time. it's ugly, especially if you read and watch news from a bunch of international and national sources, which is why the educated youth stopped caring long ago and gladly joins Ponzi narratives ... written and played by people who rely on misinformation, polarization and some sort of ... "show" ... it's boring until the future arrives and there's nothing but obedience and or confusion and or drugs to cope with either or both.

critical thinking is a dying idea, a skill soon extinct. defense mechanisms against it are hard-wired into languages and schools of thought ... the whole "just doin' my job" thing got outta hand because a bunch of other people were sabotaged just doing their jobs ... but someone makes you feel cool, or luxury does ... and that's that.

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#64

Post by ranyume »

theshaper wrote: post #60
ranyume wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just described is an idea that's around intellectual circles about the nature of power in this era. It's the idea behind the book "Ipnocrazia" (not yet released), which gained fame around europe and south america. Citing from the top of my head: "Simulation isn't imitating the real anymore, simulation precedes the real" If I understand it right, tragedy is first simulated. Once the simulation is bought by th…

Funny how what the book talks about… is exactly what’s happening. Kind of meta. The author doesn’t exist. The whole essay is fake—or a “philosophical experiment”[1], according to Andrea Colamedici, the real italian author behind it, who was supposedly just the translator. And those words aren’t his either. They came from two AI platforms (still unnamed). It’s been a scandal in publishing, and in all the universities…

I'm not sure why you say it's a scandal. The author worked with the publishing company from the start, and from the start the intention was to "unveil" the truth to make an impact.

> And those words aren’t his either. They came from two AI platforms (still unnamed).

According to interviews, he used AI platforms in a very specific way that couldn't be called "vibe philosophizing". It seems he treated the AI as a mirror instead of a system that would give him answers. I'm waiting for an extended interview this sunday, but if I understand it right he used AI as a tool for self-reflection and self-questioning.

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#65

Post by ranyume »

caseyy wrote: post #62
ranyume wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just described is an idea that's around intellectual circles about the nature of power in this era. It's the idea behind the book "Ipnocrazia" (not yet released), which gained fame around europe and south america. Citing from the top of my head: "Simulation isn't imitating the real anymore, simulation precedes the real" If I understand it right, tragedy is first simulated. Once the simulation is bought by th…

It sounds a bit like shifting the Overton Window to manufacture consent. I'm sure some people probably tried to do it.

Hypnocracy would be a societal structure in which democracy and free choice is an illusion. The population's perception of reality would be manufactured by the ruling class without coercion or persuasion.

The Overton Window only makes sense when there's free choice.

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#66

Post by [deleted] »

awanderingmind wrote: post #29
caseyy wrote: post #23

The "terror of global catastrophe" is what doomscroller media constantly hammers onto its readers. And once someone has "bought in", it's impossible to reason with them. They'll just forever spread anxiety around them. What's interesting is how it happens. Take someone who is mentally stable and subject them to a terminally online lifestyle for a year or two. They will have tons of anxiety about all sorts of things,…

Good insight, thanks. I've been struggling with existential dread related to https://ai-2027.com/ - trying to refute the arguments is exhausting, I should probably just ignore it and get on with my life.

[deleted]

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#67

Post by alganet »

caseyy wrote: post #23

The "terror of global catastrophe" is what doomscroller media constantly hammers onto its readers. And once someone has "bought in", it's impossible to reason with them. They'll just forever spread anxiety around them. What's interesting is how it happens. Take someone who is mentally stable and subject them to a terminally online lifestyle for a year or two. They will have tons of anxiety about all sorts of things,…

The anxiety spreaders are a political phenomena. It's mostly about blaming the "other side" and framing it as the cause for world collapse. Those people don't actually believe a catastrophe is going to happen. They already think they are being productive by hacking the political spectrum. In other words, imbecile automaton panfleteers.

What you described has nothing to do with schizophrenia. You are mixing up two distinct behaviors by a single theme (world ending catastrophes).

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#68

Post by Retric »

JoeyJoJoJr wrote: post #59
Retric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> population control without coercion Isn’t how you describe an emergent phenomena, a flock of birds is the thing that moves it doesn’t make sense to say it’s controlled.

Well I don’t think what the OP is describing is a puppet master pulling strings. There are definitely individuals pushing their own agendas to gain control over masses, which obviously has emergent outcomes.

Contradictory agendas has emergent properties, but the outcome isn’t under any specific groups control.

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#69

Post by caseyy »

awanderingmind wrote: post #29
caseyy wrote: post #23

The "terror of global catastrophe" is what doomscroller media constantly hammers onto its readers. And once someone has "bought in", it's impossible to reason with them. They'll just forever spread anxiety around them. What's interesting is how it happens. Take someone who is mentally stable and subject them to a terminally online lifestyle for a year or two. They will have tons of anxiety about all sorts of things,…

Good insight, thanks. I've been struggling with existential dread related to https://ai-2027.com/ - trying to refute the arguments is exhausting, I should probably just ignore it and get on with my life.

That's very interesting. It seems to assume AI agents will have the same evolutionary imperative as other species. But without the ecological context, it looks like an unfounded premise. Why would AI play the 4X game, considering the infinity of alternative imperatives it could follow?

Re: Delusional themes may be more varied than we thought

#70

Post by theshaper »

ranyume wrote: post #64
theshaper wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how what the book talks about… is exactly what’s happening. Kind of meta. The author doesn’t exist. The whole essay is fake—or a “philosophical experiment”[1], according to Andrea Colamedici, the real italian author behind it, who was supposedly just the translator. And those words aren’t his either. They came from two AI platforms (still unnamed). It’s been a scandal in publishing, and in all the universities…

I'm not sure why you say it's a scandal. The author worked with the publishing company from the start, and from the start the intention was to "unveil" the truth to make an impact. > And those words aren’t his either. They came from two AI platforms (still unnamed). According to interviews, he used AI platforms in a very specific way that couldn't be called "vibe philosophizing". It seems he treated the AI as a mirro…

> I'm not sure why you say it's a scandal. The author worked with the publishing company from the start, and from the start the intention was to "unveil" the truth to make an impact.

That just means he didn’t lie alone. They lied as a group. They lied to the newspapers that interviewed Jianwei Xun, they lied to the bookstores that sold a non-existent author, they lied to readers and academics, they violated the EU Artificial Intelligence Act, which considers it a serious offense to fail to label AI-generated text, video, or audio. The book doesn’t clarify this in any of its editions.[1]

I get your point about the marketing strategy. That doesn’t change the fact that it was a lie.

Several newspapers have already retracted or pulled their original articles about the “clever stunt” by the Italian author. New spanish editions will now include an explanation of the actual writing process (with AI), as well as the mixed identity behind the author's name.[2]

A scandal.

And yes, I think the experiment is interesting. But they lied, not just my opinion. That’s what every newspapers who interviewed a ghost is now saying.

> According to interviews, he used AI platforms in a very specific way that couldn't be called "vibe philosophizing"

I was referring to the intellectuals now justifying the experiment of working with AI. (They’ve basically discovered “vibe philosophizing”) I wasn’t referring to him. He clearly knew what he was doing.

> It seems he treated the AI as a mirror instead of a system that would give him answers.

Right. Except… I’m not the one saying:

- “Jianwei Xun emerged in late 2024 as a distributed philosophical entity born from the collaborative interaction between human intelligence and artificial intelligence systems.”

- “Xun's true nature as a hybrid intellectual construct…”

That’s from the author’s own official page.[3]

[1] https://english.elpais.com/technology/2025-04-07/jianwei-xun... [2] https://www.lanacion.com.ar/tecnologia/jianwei-xun-autor-de-... [3] https://jianweixun.com/

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