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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#361

Post by Spooky23 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #128
domoritz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are heavier. Not saying it offsets the effect but it's just not straight forward to assume either way.

They're not inherently heavier. They're only heavier if you put a long-range battery in them, even then it's not by very much, and even that may not persist as higher energy density batteries are developed. Or to put it another way, the difference between a small car and a large SUV is far greater than the difference between an electric car and a gasoline car.

A Tesla Model Y is 30% heavier than a Honda CRV. They have alot of other advantages, and are about the same weight as a three-row SUV and lighter than a Tahoe on a truck frame.

We shouldn’t be singling out EVs if we suddenly care about tire wear… it’s pretty ridiculous.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#362

Post by Agingcoder »

Saline9515 wrote: post #220
garbawarb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only 1.5% of Paris voted against this? It sounds like they're going by the will of the voters.

No, the vote was pure communication by the mayor, it didn't have a budget, nor a list of the streets, nor any details. Paris' administration is rife with corruption and mismanagement, so voters weren't very mobilized for another PR coup.

Mismanagement is (very) well documented but corruption is a very serious accusation. Do you have examples ? ( that don’t go back to Jacques Chirac )

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#363

Post by potato3732842 »

domoritz wrote: post #111
bornfreddy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would also expect that EVs wouldn't emit that many particles from brakes since the brakes typically wear much more slowly than with ICE cars.

But they are heavier. Not saying it offsets the effect but it's just not straight forward to assume either way.

The pads aren't any bigger. If they last longer then they're emitting less.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#364

Post by paulcole »

cryptopian wrote: post #340
paulcole wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US people absolutely fucking love their cars. They will lie about how much they hate them but ask them to actually change their behavior and you get nothing but a litany of excuses.

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up. Save for a few petrolheads and train enthusiasts, people use whatever happens to be the most convenient method to get around. In North America, most cities prioritise infrastructure for private cars to such an extent that any other mode is almost useless Since private cars scale badly, you want to encourage people to take other modes, but in order to change behaviour,…

Like I said, litany of excuses.

If you really don’t like cars, you’ll find a way to minimize use of them.

If you really don’t mind cars that much you’ll make up stories about how if buses and trains and bike lanes were more attractive then people would use them more.

I guarantee that if every American city had an ideal bus and train system, people would still find excuses and reasons to justify driving their cars.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#365

Post by Mawr »

impossiblefork wrote: post #288
10-1-100 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting that with modern emissions standards (and transition to EVs), over 50% of handful particulates come from tires, brakes, road surface wear, and resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city, without even considering the more immediate harms from crashes, etc.

What if the cars were made really light? Four bicycle wheels, as many batteries as you can safely put on something supported by four bicycle wheels, an aerodynamic CFRP bubble for the driver etc? I think such a vehicle can be better than one thinks, with acceptable range, acceptable particle emissions, acceptable noise levels; and I think they could easily get to 80 km/h safely.

A really light car would either have to be limited to a very low speed or be terribly unsafe in case of a crash. Since lightness implies small size, it would also not have other desirable properties of cars, like their ability to carry passengers and cargo.

That said, there might be something to it:

1. The "bicycle that's more like a car" angle: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H0jtCfdvwH4, https://youtu.be/9B0eXmbrBIo?t=30

2. The "car that's more like a bicycle" angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ly7JjqEb0

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#366

Post by Agingcoder »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #6

How much of this has to do with the policies highlighted - removing 50k parking spots, adding bike lanes and green spaces - and how much has to do with cars having better exhaust? How much less cars are on the road today vs then? The charts and title make it look like there's no cars in Paris anymore. That's not the case, at all.

Sure there are cars.

In my ( very personal, more than 20 years living here ) experience, it’s a completely different city, and there definitely are fewer cars than before.

Now if car exhausts are better and both effects compound I won’t complain !

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#367

Post by SettembreNero »

Saline9515 wrote: post #220
garbawarb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only 1.5% of Paris voted against this? It sounds like they're going by the will of the voters.

No, the vote was pure communication by the mayor, it didn't have a budget, nor a list of the streets, nor any details. Paris' administration is rife with corruption and mismanagement, so voters weren't very mobilized for another PR coup.

Informative panels about the vote where pretty much everywhere around the city.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#368

Post by potato3732842 »

iknowstuff wrote: post #307
merman wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Size for size they’re heavier. Maybe someday not but they are.

The Standard Range model 3 weighs 3,582 lbs, while the Long Range and Performance trims both weigh 4,065 lbs. The BMW 3 Series has a curb weight ranging from 3,536 to 4,180 pounds

Drives me up the wall that medium sedans curb in the same ballpark as fullsize trucks from the 70s and 80s.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#369

Post by rangestransform »

flomo wrote: post #152
chadd wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not sure this is true, for instance NYC ranks as the second most disabled-friendly city https://www.amny.com/lifestyle/new-york-city-ranks-2nd-in-a-...

Surprising, considering the NYC subway has been ignoring the ADA as much as possible.

What else do you expect when elevators are 100M apiece

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#370

Post by jenadine »

Saline9515 wrote: post #209
alistairSH wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a given. Nobody here is talking about outright bans on all vehicles. Limited access for taxis and commercial use is a thing. Buses can be built with wheelchair access. Etc. And with less space reserved for cars and only cars, there’s more space for wide/accessible sidewalks. Less chance of being run over by a car. Less air and noise pollution.

Well if you have less space for cars, parking spots are more expensive as a result. In Paris it's around a year of living wage. And currently, sidewalks are getting smaller due to the need to build bicycle lanes. My initial post was that in Paris, they removed cars but did not improve public transports, so buses are overcrowded and hostile to strollers.

People with disabilities gets a special pass that allow them to park on special parking places that are reserved for them.
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