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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#351

Post by carlosjobim »

const_cast wrote: post #212
4ndrewl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, that is mostly how it happens. Wars/riots and strikes are the only proven mechanism for effecting systemic change to power structures. It's how you got most of your freedoms.

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s literally, objectively true. The only reason Carnegie built 1500 public libraries is because he knew otherwise there was a good chance some vigilantes would take things into their own hands and he and his family would hang. Yes, it sucks that the only way to reach the rich and powerful is to harm women, children and property. But at least the rich and powerful of old kn…

[flagged]

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#353

Post by sensanaty »

Saline9515 wrote: post #224
sensanaty wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have cars here, but you're not dependent on them to get everywhere unless you live in the countryside (and even then, I knew plenty of kids who lived up in the North who biked 10+ km 1 way to school) or one of the super small cities where the sprinters are sparse. And isn't that the point most people make? It's not about complete eradication of cars, it's about having viable transport alternatives and the infrastr…

But...you still have cars fr when you need one. What many commenters argue here, and what the Paris administration is arguing is that you shouldn't own one.

I mean if you live in a city like Paris, then yeah I'd say that's legitimate. I see nothing wrong with making such dense urban centers car-free other than what's necessary like deliveries or ambulances and such, but for the former these days you've got tiny electric trucks that even fit on bike paths without causing a ruckus, usually you'll see those grocery delivery services use them.

Yes, people outside of urban cities like that (which, basically by definition means the majority of people in the country) still need cars to get around most likely, but at least we can ensure that inside the cities themselves, there are good alternatives for people to get around that benefits every single person who finds themselves in the city not inside a car, which will be the overwhelming majority of people.

I live in Utrecht in the Netherlands, and the single best thing the gov't did a few years ago is rip out the highway that was in the city center and instead turned it back into a canal surrounded by parks [1]. Literally nobody who has ever been to Utrecht would argue we were better off with the highway.

[1] https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2020/09/16/utrecht-correc...

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#354

Post by loeg »

notyourwork wrote: post #145
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just tax road consumption so people who use the roads actually pay for them. It is amazing what this has achieved in Manhattan.

Poor taxes are not a great solution with respect to equality.

The population driving into Manhattan is not poor. It's a consumption tax, not a poor tax.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#355

Post by rowanG077 »

pornel wrote: post #332
rowanG077 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true they are not that much heavier in terms of pure numbers. But road wear is a proportional to the difference in axle weight to the fourth power.

But this also means that almost all of the wear is from trucks. This whole meme comes from junk science ( https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/pollution-tyre-wear-... ) > we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles. Compared with regulated exhaust emission limits of 4.5 milligrams per kilometer, the completely unregulated tyre wear emission is higher by a factor of over 1,000. They took plas…

What meme? The article you linked talks about tire wear. Not road wear. I didn't even touch on tire wear. Road wear is well studied. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

I really can't place your comment, you simply start talking about something completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#356

Post by dublinben »

Saline9515 wrote: post #186
andrepd wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mind boggling to me that this is a genuine comment. I suggest this yt channel as a start to open your eyes as to how yes, another world is possible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM

I live in Riga, here cyclists ride on the sidewalk, along with e-scooters. I went out for a ten minutes walk with my son, I had to physically and verbally intervene three times to avoid him being hit by a cyclist or e-scooter. Last month our nanny was hit by a cyclist. In Paris it is very common and the main reason they banned e-scooters. So, while the US paradigm is toxic, I'm not convinced about the one you are pro…

It's a shame that riders of bikes and scooters in your city feel so unsafe riding on the road, that they are forced onto the sidewalks. Blame dangerous drivers and the lack of protected bike lanes though, not your neighbors who are just trying to arrive at their destinations alive.

Pedestrian collisions with bikes versus collisions with automobiles are utterly incomparable both in number and severity. If that cyclist had been driving a car, you would probably need to find a new nanny!

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#357

Post by im3w1l »

flomo wrote: post #284
cycomanic wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating how the debate around cars in cities evolves. Initially counter arguments always are that reducing cars is not desirable "nobody wants less cars in cities, people need to do their weekly groceries, nobody wants to bike in bad weather...". Once these points are refuted it always evolves into "yes it would be great, but it can't be done, because it's too expensive, politically controversial...". I…

You are putting a lot of pointless words in my mouth. As I said, I have actually lived the San Francisco car-free bike and streetcar lifestyle, and quite enjoyed it. So I have the perspective of why it does or does not work (for Americans). I would love to see some concrete solutions proposed here other than just the usual Cars Bad/Cars Good handwaving and downvoting. (I just looked at Bodega in Google Maps, and it i…

Self driving cars will make it much more viable to use cars for last mile on either side of a public transport trip.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#358

Post by hombre_fatal »

illiac786 wrote: post #227
telotortium wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city Concentrating humans together into a small locality, which is what a city is, will inherently have a significant environmental impact. Cities before private cars were still quite polluted, because transportation still has to take place just to keep the city running. Electric vehicles are the best-case scenario for truck deliver…

Cities have a positive environmental impact when you compare it with spreading the same population in villages across thousands of miles. It would be an insane amount of roads, cabling, water pipes, etc. Cities are bad for human health, but good for the environment.

Are they bad for human health compared to other ways of living like rural or suburbs? iirc rural people get the least amount of exercise because you just sit inside all day.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#359

Post by flomo »

epolanski wrote: post #267
flomo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, the working poor generally don't work downtown, and it's really the industrial areas where there is awful transit service. So cheapo used cars are a must for these folks. There is some awful HN bias here where young healthy well-paid tech workers live in some boogie part of SF/NYC/Boston/etc and enjoy the "car-free lifestyle" (and I've been there), without any idea how the other half lives.

The working poor struggles to find work and stays poor also because mobility. By the way that's not something I'm making up, it was literally told me by several people in struggling neighborhoods, lacking a car can be easily make a difference for many between being able or not to have different opportunities in life. Might be different elsewhere but it made sense to me.

I've heard the same thing, because there's a lot of jobs out in suburban industrial parks and etc. (Some local transit agencies have tried to solve this, but the situation still isn't good.)

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#360

Post by ncruces »

Krssst wrote: post #153
carlosjobim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

While bicycles are quite convenient for commuting, I am not sure if there is a way for transporting groceries for an entire week for multiple people. Is there such a way? The only solution I see is doing groceries every day.

Why does it need to be either/or? I make do almost the entire week without a car. Schools within walking distance, then mass transit to work.

So what if I own and use a small family car, to go shopping and take the kids places?

Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

My neighborhood is a real life 15min city, and most people of all ages choose to walk. We don't need to prevent families from owning a car and taking it grocery shopping once a week.

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