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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#211

Post by gorbachev »

Krssst wrote: post #153
carlosjobim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

While bicycles are quite convenient for commuting, I am not sure if there is a way for transporting groceries for an entire week for multiple people. Is there such a way? The only solution I see is doing groceries every day.

My mom used to this year round, in every weather and temperature (incl. -20C), when I was a kid several decades ago.

Honestly I don't know how she did it, but she did. It helped that we had separated bike lanes pretty much everywhere. It is entirely possible if the infrastructure supports it.

This sort of thing is why I'm personally a big fan of the 15-minute city concept.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#212

Post by const_cast »

4ndrewl wrote: post #35
ARandomerDude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the joy of destroying your neighbor’s property just for fun. Is he a working-class guy, struggling to pay his bills? Too bad. Because nothing says “let’s build a better future” than a riot.

Sadly, that is mostly how it happens. Wars/riots and strikes are the only proven mechanism for effecting systemic change to power structures. It's how you got most of your freedoms.

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s literally, objectively true.

The only reason Carnegie built 1500 public libraries is because he knew otherwise there was a good chance some vigilantes would take things into their own hands and he and his family would hang.

Yes, it sucks that the only way to reach the rich and powerful is to harm women, children and property. But at least the rich and powerful of old knew this, and preemptively prevented it.

New billionaires are far too cavalier. They believe themselves invisible, and it shows in their utter disrespect onto the average people. Where is our philanthropy? Why do you not fear for your life?

We have become too civilized, and allowed the evil to laugh in our faces.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#213

Post by gnatolf »

Krssst wrote: post #153
carlosjobim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

While bicycles are quite convenient for commuting, I am not sure if there is a way for transporting groceries for an entire week for multiple people. Is there such a way? The only solution I see is doing groceries every day.

Plenty of Europeans have cargo bikes and make do with 2-3 supermarket trips per week for families of 4-5 peeps.

Only bulk drinks (crates of beer/soda/...) are challenging. But for those, very often delivery systems are in place that surely are more efficient than individual trips anyways.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#214

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bri3d wrote: post #12

Worth noting that 50-60% of passenger cars in France are diesel, but Paris have been gradually banning older higher emission diesels (Crit’air 3, 4, 5) from Paris. Banning cars outright also works, of course, but I suspect a lot of the reduction can be attributed to getting particularly bad diesel cars out vs. the limited areas where cars are entirely restricted.

Many cities in Europe have introduced climate zones in the past ~20 years, mainly to ban older smoky diesels like that. Petrol cars have also gotten more efficient; smaller engines (1 liter 3 cylinder ones are the norm now for smaller cars), smaller cars, more efficient engines, stop/start systems, hybrids and EVs (especially good for city traffic), etc.

That said, when I was in Paris last there were a lot of motor-scooters; while they also have small engines etc, I can't see them being much cleaner than well-designed cars, only due to their smaller size. Given time, I'm sure the range on their electric counterparts will become good enough as well to become a practical replacement.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#215

Post by Saline9515 »

const_cast wrote: post #195
Saline9515 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of economic activity requires cars. Delivery, workers coming with equipment, waste management, and so on. Every construction worker in Paris will tell you that it's very difficult to work there, and that they have doubled their prices as a result.

These people are HELPED by anti-car legislation because it clears the congestion for them to run their business. Most small, and large, businesses would happily pay a small fee if it means half the transportation time. And it does, because traffic isn’t linear. Just a few more cars can be the difference between coasting at 30 or not moving at all.

The infrastructure changes required to get cars out meant to reduce the flow speed of cars. As a result, even buses, who have dedicated lanes, are much slower.

[EDIT]: since I'm being answered that it isn't true, here is a chart made by the city hall about the decreasing speed on Paris' roads:

https://cdn.paris.fr/paris/2024/07/12/original-4ee2d20dafdc9...

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#217

Post by Saline9515 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #202
Saline9515 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have a non-existent knowledge of French political life. This referendum had a participation rate of 4%, and only 62% of the voters voted yes. So around 2% of the total voters. By the way, the French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women. So yeah, it's manageable for young people. But when a baby arrives, it's hell. Same if yo…

French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women These sound like...car problems.

True, but the metro space is closed, so pollution can attain a very high level there.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#218

Post by Cthulhu_ »

carlosjobim wrote: post #121
usrusr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighter cars, really, that's it. Make vehicles that match the transportation case in question instead of palaces on wheels that carry battery sized for solving some once in a year use case. And/or make them go slower.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

The French have got you covered there [0].

There's also plenty of other, more practical / affordable microcars [1] on the road around where I live, they're considered equivalent to mopeds in terms of legality / requirements but you don't need a helmet, they seat two people and some groceries, etc. They used to be mainly popular for elderly people but they seem to catch on to other people too. Great for local traffic.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcar

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#219

Post by jltsiren »

Saline9515 wrote: post #177
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buses are perfectly accessible in Paris. They are crowded but acceptably so for a city of 10 millions. It’s not fair to expect the collectivity to accept the externalities of cars so rich people can avoid some slight discomfort.

Paris is not a city of 10 millions, it has only two million habitants. And cars are not reserved to rich people, why would they be? I grew up in Paris, my parents weren't rich, we were living in public housing and we had a car. Families are not second-tier citizens, and currently the public transports are not suited for them. On top of the other problems, such as the pleasure of having to deal with crackheads and var…

When it comes to traffic and urban planning, Paris is best understood as a city of 10+ million people. The administrative subdivision called Paris has only ~2 million people, but the city doesn't end at its borders.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#220

Post by Saline9515 »

garbawarb wrote: post #197
Saline9515 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have a non-existent knowledge of French political life. This referendum had a participation rate of 4%, and only 62% of the voters voted yes. So around 2% of the total voters. By the way, the French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women. So yeah, it's manageable for young people. But when a baby arrives, it's hell. Same if yo…

So only 1.5% of Paris voted against this? It sounds like they're going by the will of the voters.

No, the vote was pure communication by the mayor, it didn't have a budget, nor a list of the streets, nor any details. Paris' administration is rife with corruption and mismanagement, so voters weren't very mobilized for another PR coup.
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