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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#201

Post by const_cast »

Krssst wrote: post #153
carlosjobim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

While bicycles are quite convenient for commuting, I am not sure if there is a way for transporting groceries for an entire week for multiple people. Is there such a way? The only solution I see is doing groceries every day.

Groceries every day (or every few days) becomes viable and common in cities like Paris. It’s a lot easier to do when you don’t have to take a car, and the culture then shifts too to fresher food.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#202

Post by anigbrowl »

Saline9515 wrote: post #114
TulliusCicero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A city improved the air quality "Pure sadism!!!" Yeah I'm sure everyone is real miserable, which is why they just voted in a referendum for more car-free streets. Amazing how out of touch with reality the car-dominance types are.

You clearly have a non-existent knowledge of French political life. This referendum had a participation rate of 4%, and only 62% of the voters voted yes. So around 2% of the total voters. By the way, the French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women. So yeah, it's manageable for young people. But when a baby arrives, it's hell. Same if yo…

French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women

These sound like...car problems.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#204

Post by flomo »

Zigurd wrote: post #172
flomo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, the working poor generally don't work downtown, and it's really the industrial areas where there is awful transit service. So cheapo used cars are a must for these folks. There is some awful HN bias here where young healthy well-paid tech workers live in some boogie part of SF/NYC/Boston/etc and enjoy the "car-free lifestyle" (and I've been there), without any idea how the other half lives.

A friend of mine is writing a history of the Massachusetts Hill towns. The Strathmore paper company plays a big part in that history the mill owners built housing for their workers within walking distance of the mills. I also know of a tourism industry company that is buying up older hotels that are no longer competitive in the local market to use as seasonal worker housing. There are solutions other than having some…

Yeah, "company towns" were another issue that cars solved.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#205

Post by com »

Saline9515 wrote: post #168
andrepd wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch people seem to do just fine with baby seats on their bikes, or bakfiets if you have lots of kids. Anecdotally, kids are also much happier when they can just bike to school/sports/activities with their friends instead of having their parents drive then everywhere on the back of the family SUV.

Dutch people using bikes for everything is a meme, they have as many cars per inhabitants as most of the developed nations. Anecdotically, they are a small, dense, flat country, with an oceanic weather. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territ...

But those cars, as has been explained to you, don’t do nearly as many trips per year.

Mobility in families is actually higher, since each individual has sturdy legs, and highly likely, a bike after they’re about 5 years old. Kids often travel to school, after school events etc on foot, bike or public transport, not dependent as in many car-centric places on parents and their cars.

Grandma is as likely to bike over for dinner with the grandkids as drive.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#206

Post by AnthonyMouse »

const_cast wrote: post #195
Saline9515 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of economic activity requires cars. Delivery, workers coming with equipment, waste management, and so on. Every construction worker in Paris will tell you that it's very difficult to work there, and that they have doubled their prices as a result.

These people are HELPED by anti-car legislation because it clears the congestion for them to run their business. Most small, and large, businesses would happily pay a small fee if it means half the transportation time. And it does, because traffic isn’t linear. Just a few more cars can be the difference between coasting at 30 or not moving at all.

If it's really only a difference of a few cars then there should be a dozen other ways to get a similar effect without enacting a regressive tax.

Meanwhile doing it through financial deterrence requires that someone is actually deterred. And then is that going to be poor people and small businesses or rich people and major companies?

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#207

Post by alistairSH »

timewizard wrote: post #115
freen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems we have very different definitions of “city”. I am very curious to hear yours.

It seems you want to ignore half the problem.

I’m still not sure what point you’re trying to make… you claimed cities can’t exist without cars. Yet London and Paris and Rome and damn near every big city in Europe did predate cars by centuries.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#208

Post by beastman82 »

paulcole wrote: post #162
grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

At least in the US people absolutely fucking love their cars. They will lie about how much they hate them but ask them to actually change their behavior and you get nothing but a litany of excuses.

I love mine and so does everyone else, and I don't feel ashamed at all. They're incredible.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#209

Post by Saline9515 »

alistairSH wrote: post #200
Saline9515 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.

That’s not a given. Nobody here is talking about outright bans on all vehicles. Limited access for taxis and commercial use is a thing. Buses can be built with wheelchair access. Etc. And with less space reserved for cars and only cars, there’s more space for wide/accessible sidewalks. Less chance of being run over by a car. Less air and noise pollution.

Well if you have less space for cars, parking spots are more expensive as a result. In Paris it's around a year of living wage. And currently, sidewalks are getting smaller due to the need to build bicycle lanes.

My initial post was that in Paris, they removed cars but did not improve public transports, so buses are overcrowded and hostile to strollers.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#210

Post by Saline9515 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #104
Saline9515 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.

Only if you just remove the cars without replacing them with good public transportation (family friendly, accessible, with special modes for disabled people).

Which doesn't exist and is hardly possible in Paris.
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