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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#131

Post by fragmede »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #88
ethagknight wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flipped through the summary of that report, and I would think there is almost surely no way this is true, unless focusing on worst case assumptions like aggressive driving styles and very poorly maintained vehicles. Your conclusion that there is not “any healthy level of private cars coexisting” is heavy handed. There is a balance, but I suspect it’s more of a jealousy/equality issue. Heavily taxed and high quality…

My desire not to inhale brake & tire particulate, not to be killed while walking to the store, and not to subsidize others expensive lifestyles, is not rooted in jealousy. I owned a car once, it was sometimes convenient, interesting & fun, but it was also often infuriating, terrifying and expensive. If I can pull it off, I'd prefer to never own one again. I don't really care if anyone else owns them, I just don't wan…

public escalators and moving walkways are a concept for cities from a century ago that we largely missed out on.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#132

Post by oblio »

Saline9515 wrote: post #100
oblio wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be real here, a huge chunk of car traffic in cities is purely for convenience. Once that's reduced by say, 50%, everything becomes much better, but nobody gives up convenience voluntarily.

The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.

Shocker, both disabled people and families are easily identifiable and can be exempt from such measures.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#133

Post by Saline9515 »

chadd wrote: post #106
Saline9515 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.

i'm not sure this is true, for instance NYC ranks as the second most disabled-friendly city https://www.amny.com/lifestyle/new-york-city-ranks-2nd-in-a-...

In Paris, 90% of the metro transportation system isn't accessible to wheelchairs and strollers. Buses are overcrowded and slow. Who doesn't enjoy to see someone cough on their newborn while fighting for a space for their stoller ?

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#134

Post by masklinn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #118
TulliusCicero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A city improved the air quality "Pure sadism!!!" Yeah I'm sure everyone is real miserable, which is why they just voted in a referendum for more car-free streets. Amazing how out of touch with reality the car-dominance types are.

The improvement in air quality is overwhelmingly a result of banning diesel cars. It is, of course, possible to ban diesel cars rather than all cars. The people who live in the city don't want cars because it's the people who can't afford to live in the city who need them to get there.

> it's the people who can't afford to live in the city who need them to get there.

What are you talking about. Paris's public transport reaches out 60km away from the city, and that's not including mainline trains (including high speed). The people who can't afford to live in the city have taken public transport to get there for 50 years.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#135

Post by tpm »

whimsicalism wrote: post #15

it’s always shocked me how diesel reliant Europe is, smells absolutely terrible coming from the states

Yes but sales of diesel passenger cars are falling fast, so this will change in a few years.

https://robbieandrew.github.io/carsales/

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#136

Post by oblio »

timewizard wrote: post #105
grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

There are cities not designed around cars. We just call them "rural." You could not have had your urban city without cars. There is absolutely nothing "tragic" about this. Meanwhile you live in a world where petty wars are fought over resources to enhance the wealth of an extreme minority of the population. That's an actual tragedy.

The first "urban city" predates the car by about 5000 years.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#137

Post by andrepd »

Saline9515 wrote: post #114
TulliusCicero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A city improved the air quality "Pure sadism!!!" Yeah I'm sure everyone is real miserable, which is why they just voted in a referendum for more car-free streets. Amazing how out of touch with reality the car-dominance types are.

You clearly have a non-existent knowledge of French political life. This referendum had a participation rate of 4%, and only 62% of the voters voted yes. So around 2% of the total voters. By the way, the French metro's air is highly polluted, due to tire degradation and brake dust, making it unfit for children or pregnant women. So yeah, it's manageable for young people. But when a baby arrives, it's hell. Same if yo…

Dutch people seem to do just fine with baby seats on their bikes, or bakfiets if you have lots of kids.

Anecdotally, kids are also much happier when they can just bike to school/sports/activities with their friends instead of having their parents drive then everywhere on the back of the family SUV.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#138

Post by flomo »

epolanski wrote: post #77
grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

And it's one of the biggest promoters of inequality. I am an European who studied at OSU in Columbus for a semester and it was absurd to me how on one side there was lots of work downtown, yet you could live 20 miles of it and it would take you two hours by public transport to get there, an odyssey. People without a car, insurance, poorer parts of the society were cut off from the job market for not having a way to c…

In the USA, the working poor generally don't work downtown, and it's really the industrial areas where there is awful transit service. So cheapo used cars are a must for these folks.

There is some awful HN bias here where young healthy well-paid tech workers live in some boogie part of SF/NYC/Boston/etc and enjoy the "car-free lifestyle" (and I've been there), without any idea how the other half lives.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#139

Post by lotsofpulp »

thehappypm wrote: post #108
FredPret wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because they weigh more

“They weigh more” is something I kinda have a problem with. People act like EVs are these behemoths, but your typical EV is hardly an outlier. The Tesla Model 3, for example, weighs as much as a Honda CRV. Yes, that’s a different car class; but nobody looks at a CRV and complains about its weight and the environmental impact of that weight on air quality nearly the same way.

People who care about the externalities of unnecessarily large and heavy vehicles do complain about compact utility vehicles, aka “I want to sit higher up”.

A model Y would be the comparison to a CRV (model Y is 400 pounds / 10% heavier).

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#140

Post by Saline9515 »

FredPret wrote: post #97
epolanski wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in downtown Rome, Italy. By far the biggest pollution you get in your house, it's...dust from brakes. It's a tragedy. Not saying diesel ain't bad, but even now that diesels have been largely banned or reduced to euro 6, it has changed nothing about brake dust. My flat would fill with it in a single day. It's everywhere. And I lived on a third floor, not even at street level.

How do you know the dust was specifically brake dust?

Only electric vehicules are allowed inside the ZFE.
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