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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#121

Post by carlosjobim »

usrusr wrote: post #36
azinman2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if anyone is working on ways for breaks and tires to be less harmful, or polluting?

Lighter cars, really, that's it. Make vehicles that match the transportation case in question instead of palaces on wheels that carry battery sized for solving some once in a year use case. And/or make them go slower.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#122

Post by clayhacks »

EasyMark wrote: post #117
epolanski wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's one of the biggest promoters of inequality. I am an European who studied at OSU in Columbus for a semester and it was absurd to me how on one side there was lots of work downtown, yet you could live 20 miles of it and it would take you two hours by public transport to get there, an odyssey. People without a car, insurance, poorer parts of the society were cut off from the job market for not having a way to c…

Suburbs are fine. We are in 2025, not 1925, there is no reason why work from home isn't an option for information workers and others who don't need to be physically on premises. You are completely ignoring how much that cuts down on traffic and would lower the cost of real estate, so more people who aren't millionaires could live downtown. We also have electric cars that have basically zero emissions, there is a tech…

Work from home is great, but there’s more to life than work. Being walking distance or public transport distance to the rest of life’s activities is also great. And EVs aren’t saving the planet they are saving the car industry. They still cause tire particulate pollution, noise pollution, light pollution, and need tons of rare earth minerals

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#123

Post by appreciatorBus »

mjevans wrote: post #7

"Ban all the cars" does have noticeable effects. I wonder if something less all / none might have nearly the same effects with far less drawbacks otherwise. E.G. What if only emissions testing certified low emission vehicles were allowed? What if only electric? How about requiring quiet utility trucks for garbage / freight / etc? For cities that large / dense, adding in Caves of Steel like people-mover belts might be…

I'm not familiar with the particulars of the Paris program but a "car ban" doesn't have to ban garbage & freight trucks.

I'd argue these, along with private or public transit, emergency vehicles etc, are the best uses for the internal combustion engine or just vehicles in general. The problem with ICE/car/vehicles, isn't that they exist or are useful, but that at some point we over-indexed on their utility and ignored their externalities & subsidies.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#124

Post by Saline9515 »

microtonal wrote: post #76
stavros wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad-faith fallacy. We had cars that emitted X amounts of tyre/brake particulate and 10X amounts of combustion residue, we got rid of the combustion part, and now we hear "OMG! 100% is tyre particulate!!!" Sure, but people won't stop moving, and there's no vacuum, you should compare brake particulate to whatever else people would use if cars didn't exist.

Or you could just make a city car-free. There are so many benefits besides fewer particles in the air. People can walk and cycle safely. Kids can play in the streets. The atmosphere is so much nicer, since people are not isolated by walls around them. I have lived in a city with a (nearly) car-free city center (+ separate bike lines for many roads outside the center) for most of my adult life [1] and it is just glori…

Kids can't play in streets as now the new predators are cyclists who don't slow down or get down of their bikes. Besides, cars are a staple for families, and hardly substituable. Good luck doing groceries for 6 without one.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#125

Post by andrepd »

epolanski wrote: post #77
grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

And it's one of the biggest promoters of inequality. I am an European who studied at OSU in Columbus for a semester and it was absurd to me how on one side there was lots of work downtown, yet you could live 20 miles of it and it would take you two hours by public transport to get there, an odyssey. People without a car, insurance, poorer parts of the society were cut off from the job market for not having a way to c…

Suburbs are also financially subsidised by the city centres. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#126

Post by graemep »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #109
graemep wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can make pollution worse. ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph.

> ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph ... when driven continuously without stopping, like a on cross country limited access highway. When driving in the places people live, with cross walks and stop signs and children playing outside requiring frequent slowing & stopping, there's no efficiency benefit from racing 0 to 50mph every block then slamming on the brakes, only to repeat for each block after.

I frequently drive through 20 mph areas with little stop start traffic. I rarely drive at busy times.

There is nowhere in the UK I can think of that has had a 50 limit in my lifetime that requires frequent breaking. 20 mph limits are invariably reduced from 30.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#127

Post by netsharc »

jopsen wrote: post #93
netsharc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, imagine EVs that have removable add-on batteries that you'd only plug in for the longer trips.. Like the Thinkpads with the "bigger battery" humps: https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_ap/photo/l/lenovo-thi/lenovo-th...

A battery trailer might affect the speed limit your allowed to drive. But it would be cool to just rent the extra 500km when needed :)

Obviously a trailer would not be a clever idea, but Nio already has cars with swappable batteries, for short distances you could just install a battery pack which is maybe 20% battery and 80% empty space

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#128

Post by AnthonyMouse »

domoritz wrote: post #111
bornfreddy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would also expect that EVs wouldn't emit that many particles from brakes since the brakes typically wear much more slowly than with ICE cars.

But they are heavier. Not saying it offsets the effect but it's just not straight forward to assume either way.

They're not inherently heavier. They're only heavier if you put a long-range battery in them, even then it's not by very much, and even that may not persist as higher energy density batteries are developed.

Or to put it another way, the difference between a small car and a large SUV is far greater than the difference between an electric car and a gasoline car.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#129

Post by oblio »

flomo wrote: post #81
SequoiaHope wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time in between, where electric streetcars (trains) were a common mode of transport. But those got torn up for cars. That’s a real tragedy in hindsight.

That's the myth. Streetcars were actually torn up because busses were much cheaper, there was no conspiracy. The streetcars were also old and cold and ppl hated them. (I lived in a streetcar part of SF, and loved it, fwiw. But the only reason it's still there is a tunnel.)

Many other places just... upgraded the trams.

You know, the less radical solution.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#130

Post by AnthonyMouse »

carlosjobim wrote: post #121
usrusr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighter cars, really, that's it. Make vehicles that match the transportation case in question instead of palaces on wheels that carry battery sized for solving some once in a year use case. And/or make them go slower.

It would be incredible if somebody invented a light car, that would transport one or two people and some groceries. Maybe with two wheels instead of four to take up less space. Hmmm why has nobody invented this?

Crash test ratings.
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