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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#91
post #39
post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

It is, though the problem predates the cars. At the time cars were seen as a huge win over the vast piles of horse poop. Cities do need to be reconsidered for more public transit and more opportunities to walk, but other issues (delivery, emergency, disability, etc) have to figure in.

Just like the promise of EVs to replace the exhaust from ICE cars is seen as a win.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#92
post #3

Barely even mentions the noise. Cities aren't loud but cars are. Paris 2025 vs 1995 soundscapes very different.

There's this guy on YouTube that travelled to india and one thing stood out to me was the non-stop honking of cars and bikes. Just endless forever. What a nightmare! I wonder what that does to a population. How does anyone think?? https://youtu.be/IFUIdcrgW6M?si=o6LkXK4MyS-PL7m-&t=661

I think there's a few studies. E.g. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-024-33973-9

I used to live next to a big intersection with a red light, and the cars accelerating away when it goes green was annoying. I now live at the end of a cul-de-sac with a cemetary behind me. So much more peaceful!

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#93
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighter cars, really, that's it. Make vehicles that match the transportation case in question instead of palaces on wheels that carry battery sized for solving some once in a year use case. And/or make them go slower.

Huh, imagine EVs that have removable add-on batteries that you'd only plug in for the longer trips.. Like the Thinkpads with the "bigger battery" humps: https://sm.pcmag.com/t/pcmag_ap/photo/l/lenovo-thi/lenovo-th...

A battery trailer might affect the speed limit your allowed to drive.

But it would be cool to just rent the extra 500km when needed :)

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#94
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting that with modern emissions standards (and transition to EVs), over 50% of handful particulates come from tires, brakes, road surface wear, and resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city, without even considering the more immediate harms from crashes, etc.

With EVs, 100% of particulates are from tires, etc! It's a disaster! Except, you know, the amount remained the same, we just got rid of the other 98% that used to be there.

Since EVs are heavier and accelerate better they probably produce more tire dust.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#95
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just horse poop, but dead horses that were quite the chore to remove back in the day, and the danger posed to pedestrians by a bunch of quite large and easily panicked animals.

We still have that danger. But the animals are homo sapiens and they are surrounded by 2 tonnes of metal. :)

This is true, but from the perspective of the time, automobiles were far from "2 tons of metal" and quite a bit slower. They were also a rich man's conveyance, even more so than a nice carriage, and I doubt people understood early on just how widely adopted the automobile would become.

A lack of foresight is also very human.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#96
post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

Paris didn't improve its public transportation system, as it made it impossible to own a car. It ends up as pure sadism for the inhabitants who are not childless, affluent 20/30 years old, and who have no alternative than having to take the piss-smelling cattle trains with no access the disabled people, or strollers.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#97
post #12

Worth noting that 50-60% of passenger cars in France are diesel, but Paris have been gradually banning older higher emission diesels (Crit’air 3, 4, 5) from Paris. Banning cars outright also works, of course, but I suspect a lot of the reduction can be attributed to getting particularly bad diesel cars out vs. the limited areas where cars are entirely restricted.

I lived in downtown Rome, Italy. By far the biggest pollution you get in your house, it's...dust from brakes. It's a tragedy. Not saying diesel ain't bad, but even now that diesels have been largely banned or reduced to euro 6, it has changed nothing about brake dust. My flat would fill with it in a single day. It's everywhere. And I lived on a third floor, not even at street level.

How do you know the dust was specifically brake dust?

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#98
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With EVs, 100% of particulates are from tires, etc! It's a disaster! Except, you know, the amount remained the same, we just got rid of the other 98% that used to be there.

Just not true. I favor EVs, but it is incredibly misleading to say 98% comes from other sources. In many places, natural gas and coal are still used to generate the electricity needed. That must be accounted for in your life cycle analysis. In fact, once you remove the Musk propaganda, Tesla's EVs are by no way greener (draw a boundary around his other company SpaceX, and the rocket fuel it uses, and you immediately…

True, but even in Wyoming, where you EV is really a coal-powered vehicle, the coal is not burned in the city.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#99
post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

Paris didn't improve its public transportation system, as it made it impossible to own a car. It ends up as pure sadism for the inhabitants who are not childless, affluent 20/30 years old, and who have no alternative than having to take the piss-smelling cattle trains with no access the disabled people, or strollers.

> A city improved the air quality

"Pure sadism!!!"

Yeah I'm sure everyone is real miserable, which is why they just voted in a referendum for more car-free streets.

Amazing how out of touch with reality the car-dominance types are.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#100
post #50
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, though the problem predates the cars. At the time cars were seen as a huge win over the vast piles of horse poop. Cities do need to be reconsidered for more public transit and more opportunities to walk, but other issues (delivery, emergency, disability, etc) have to figure in.

Let's be real here, a huge chunk of car traffic in cities is purely for convenience. Once that's reduced by say, 50%, everything becomes much better, but nobody gives up convenience voluntarily.

The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.
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