Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic • Hacker News Board

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#51

Post by stavros » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

10-1-100 wrote: post #16

bri3d wrote: post #12

Worth noting that 50-60% of passenger cars in France are diesel, but Paris have been gradually banning older higher emission diesels (Crit’air 3, 4, 5) from Paris. Banning cars outright also works, of course, but I suspect a lot of the reduction can be attributed to getting particularly bad diesel cars out vs. the limited areas where cars are entirely restricted.

Also worth noting that with modern emissions standards (and transition to EVs), over 50% of handful particulates come from tires, brakes, road surface wear, and resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city, without even considering the more immediate harms from crashes, etc.

With EVs, 100% of particulates are from tires, etc! It's a disaster!

Except, you know, the amount remained the same, we just got rid of the other 98% that used to be there.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#52

Post by Kavelach » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #21

Modified3019 wrote: post #14

It makes sense now why they burn cars every protest (besides being fun). Pollution for a day, clean air for a lifetime

Ah yes, the joy of destroying your neighbor’s property just for fun. Is he a working-class guy, struggling to pay his bills? Too bad. Because nothing says “let’s build a better future” than a riot.

Massive strikes that are hard to contain got use the 8 hour work day, weekends and a lot of labor rights. Civil right movements won only because a huge portion of them were militant (back then even the National Rifle Association supported banning guns). A violent status quo necessitates violence to achieve change.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#53

Post by jfengel » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #7

"Ban all the cars" does have noticeable effects. I wonder if something less all / none might have nearly the same effects with far less drawbacks otherwise. E.G. What if only emissions testing certified low emission vehicles were allowed? What if only electric? How about requiring quiet utility trucks for garbage / freight / etc? For cities that large / dense, adding in Caves of Steel like people-mover belts might be…

It's not just about emissions. The entire character of the area changes. The streets fill with pedestrians and bicycles.

Garbage trucks and ambulances still use the streets. But they face no traffic and are exceptions rather than the rule. They don't need to be either low emission or quiet, though those things are also nice to have, since those things are no longer the most pressing issues.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#54

Post by thrance » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #21

Modified3019 wrote: post #14

It makes sense now why they burn cars every protest (besides being fun). Pollution for a day, clean air for a lifetime

Ah yes, the joy of destroying your neighbor’s property just for fun. Is he a working-class guy, struggling to pay his bills? Too bad. Because nothing says “let’s build a better future” than a riot.

The comment you resond to is obviously a joke, and so is yours (in a way) but owning and driving a car in Paris almost certainly places you in the upper class. Most Parisians don't own cars, most don't use them to drive around the city.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#55

Post by paulgb » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #3

Barely even mentions the noise. Cities aren't loud but cars are. Paris 2025 vs 1995 soundscapes very different.

Manhattan recently got congestion pricing and it’s noticeably more enjoyable because of this, even indoors.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#56

Post by dharmab » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

NightMKoder wrote: post #29

azinman2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if anyone is working on ways for breaks and tires to be less harmful, or polluting?

I don’t know about tires, but for brakes we already know how to make lower dust brakes - use drum brakes instead of disc brakes. The friction material is enclosed on drum brakes so much less of it just flies away.

Ever driven a vehicle with drums in the front? Even on a light vehicle they take a long time to stop.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#57

Post by SequoiaHope » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #39

grg0 wrote: post #31

Cars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.

It is, though the problem predates the cars. At the time cars were seen as a huge win over the vast piles of horse poop. Cities do need to be reconsidered for more public transit and more opportunities to walk, but other issues (delivery, emergency, disability, etc) have to figure in.

There was a time in between, where electric streetcars (trains) were a common mode of transport. But those got torn up for cars. That’s a real tragedy in hindsight.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#58

Post by sergiotapia » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #3

Barely even mentions the noise. Cities aren't loud but cars are. Paris 2025 vs 1995 soundscapes very different.

There's this guy on YouTube that travelled to india and one thing stood out to me was the non-stop honking of cars and bikes. Just endless forever. What a nightmare!

I wonder what that does to a population. How does anyone think??

https://youtu.be/IFUIdcrgW6M?si=o6LkXK4MyS-PL7m-&t=661

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#59

Post by potato3732842 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #15

it’s always shocked me how diesel reliant Europe is, smells absolutely terrible coming from the states

You get what you incentivize.

Europe chose to levy big fuel taxes and punitive displacement taxes. Diesel cars are some of the best when it comes to driving experience and fuel economy for a given displacement. What followed was perfectly predictable.

The road to hell is paved with public policy implemented with willful ignorance to obvious 2nd order effects.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#60

Post by sorcerer-mar » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

JasonBorne wrote: post #9

TulliusCicero wrote: post #5

Those are some really awesome changes. If only we could get more of that for cities in the US.

We can. Slowly over time we need to raise awareness of the benefits of this.

Just tax road consumption so people who use the roads actually pay for them.

It is amazing what this has achieved in Manhattan.