Google is winning on every AI front • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#271

Post by alternatex » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:52 AM UTC

marcusb wrote: post #250

alternatex wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put Google has had more time to develop a terrible data hoarding reputation.

Isn't hoarding data for training purposes a key part of OpenAI's business model? I get that they don't have a reputation for selling that data (or access to it) yet , but, what happens if/when funding dries up? I definitely don't trust Google -- fool me once, and all -- but to the extent I'm going to "trust" any business with my data, I'd like to see a proven business model that isn't based on monetizing my informati…

I don't think it's about trusting OpenAI necessarily, and definitely not a character like Sam Altman. It's more about Google having a proven record of being data obsessed. 99% of the money they make is from our data. Many other tech giants (Apple, Microsoft, etc) are also hard to trust, but at least they don't have their whole business model built on user data like Google and Meta. I can't blame anyone looking at OpenAI as a lesser evil.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#272

Post by imiric » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:54 AM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #259

wkat4242 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah me too and especially with Google as a leader because they corrupt everything. I hope local models remain viable. I don't think ever expanding the size is the way forward anyway.

Once again, our hope is for the Chinese to continue driving the open models. Because if it depends on American big companies the future will be one of dependency on closed AI models.

You can't be serious... You think models built by companies from an autocracy are somehow better? I suppose their biases and censorship are easier to spot, but I wouldn't trade one form of influence over another.

Besides, Meta is currently the leader in open-source/weight models. There's no reason that US companies can't continue to innovate in this space.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#273

Post by harvey9 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:55 AM UTC

ww520 wrote: post #144

harvey9 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generative AI makes things up so I'm surprised that you seem surprised. For some situations checking the documentation is still the best option.

I know LLM’s hallucinate. I’m surprised how convincing and how stubborn it insisted it’s right. Other LLM’s would have given up and admit they don’t know.

The other day I wanted to use a function in an unfamiliar library. Gemini kept putting an argument into the call that wasn't supposed to be there even after I explicitly told it not to. This was after I trusted Gemini, got an error message and looked at the docs. The argument it was adding was required for other functions in other libraries the same subject area so I suppose that's why it did it.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#274

Post by thorax » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:56 AM UTC

antirez wrote: post #6

Gemini 2.5 pro is as powerful as everybody says. I still also use Claude Sonnet 3.7 only because the Gemini web UI has issues... (Imagine creating the best AI and then not allowing to attach Python or C files if not renamed .txt) but the way the model is better than anyone else is a "that's another league" experience. They have the biggest search engine and YouTube to leverage the power of the AI they are developing.…

In AI Studio, it seemed to let me upload pretty much any file and tokenize it without renaming, FWIW

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#275

Post by behnamoh » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:56 AM UTC

fpoling wrote: post #226

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's be a >$10bn business already. But not profitable yet.

Opera browser was not profitable for like 15 years and still became rather profitable eventually to make an attractive target to purchase by external investors. And even if not bough it would still made nice profit eventually for the original investors.

You can't burn money in AI for 15 years on the off chance that it’ll pay off.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#276

Post by brap » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:57 AM UTC

karel-3d wrote: post #243

Please explain to me like I am stupid. If I want to use OpenAI models, I download ChatGPT app. What do I need to do to use Google's model? They have so mamy things called Gemini... I genuinely have no clue

google.com/gemini

There’s also AI Studio another commenter mentioned, but that’s for more advanced users who want to tweak it

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#277

Post by mnky9800n » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:57 AM UTC

codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

Feel free to get started on Sam Altman.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#278

Post by fragmede » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:58 AM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #218

ramraj07 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for my next round of Evals then. I had a 40 PR coding streak last weekend with mostly o3-mini-pro, will test the latest 2.5 now.

PR = pull request? So every bit of garbage from the LLM, over and over, resulted in an individual pull request? Why not just do one when your branch is finally right?

Why would you assume that?

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#279

Post by mark_l_watson » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:58 AM UTC

jononor wrote: post #131

krackers wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that DeepSeek continues to open-source, then we can assume that in the future there won't be any "secret sauce" in model architecture. Only data and training/serving infrastructure, and Google is in a good position with regard to both.

Google is also in a great position wrt distribution - to get users at scale, and attach to pre-existing revenue streams. Via Android, Gmail, Docs, Search - they have a lot of reach. YouTube as well, though fit there is maybe less obvious. Combined with the two factors you mention, and the size of their warchest - they are really excellently positioned.

Over the last nine months, I have periodically tested Gemini’s access to and effective use of data from Gmail/Docs/Calendar/Keep-notes, etc.

The improvement has been steady and impressive. The entire integration is becoming a product that I want to use.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#280

Post by imtringued » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 11:59 AM UTC

thunderbird120 wrote: post #10

This article doesn't mention TPUs anywhere. I don't think it's obvious for people outside of google's ecosystem just how extraordinarily good the JAX + TPU ecosystem is. Google several structural advantages over other major players, but the largest one is that they roll their own compute solution which is actually very mature and competitive. TPUs are extremely good at both training and inference[1] especially at sca…

Google is what everyone thinks OpenAI is.

Google has their own cloud with their data centers with their own custom designed hardware using their own machine learning software stack running their in-house designed neural networks.

The only thing Google is missing is designing a computer memory that is specifically tailored for machine learning. Something like processing in memory.