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Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

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Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#51

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

slt2021 wrote: post #40

Germany has no national idea, they have no reason why an average burger should work his/her ass off competing with Chinese/American/Indian scientists and working 80 hr/week on cutting edge research. Germans are smart and capable, but the German lifestyle is not for "super high tech" industry

I hope this works out (even if it's a net negative for the US). I have worked with German engineers, and have been quite impressed.

I sincerely wish Germany luck. They'd better do a good job of securing their IP, though...

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#52

Post by renewiltord »

noworriesnate wrote: post #23
renewiltord wrote: post #4

Nothing surprising about Germany excelling at its strongest fields: creating ministries. Accretive policy is strong there and in their Anglo-Saxon descendants.

On the flip side we Anglo-Saxons (and Germany's descendants in general) also invented a lot of cool stuff: airplanes, trains, cars, tractors, spacecraft, even hot air balloons!

Without a doubt not the only characteristic. Simply a characteristic of these cultures today. e.g. obsession with environment to the degree of actively harming it (opposing nuclear, wind, solar, and geothermal; and dense housing) is primarily an Anglophone concern specifically UK/US/Aus. And those countries are collectively responsible for a lot of innovation.

Seems to be a truth: inventiveness moving to moribund navel-gazing.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#53

Post by bcye »

slt2021 wrote: post #40

Germany has no national idea, they have no reason why an average burger should work his/her ass off competing with Chinese/American/Indian scientists and working 80 hr/week on cutting edge research. Germans are smart and capable, but the German lifestyle is not for "super high tech" industry

What is the national idea of the other listed countries in comparison? Also: a "national idea" isn't the only reason people do cutting edge research.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#54

Post by fxtentacle »

slt2021 wrote: post #40

Germany has no national idea, they have no reason why an average burger should work his/her ass off competing with Chinese/American/Indian scientists and working 80 hr/week on cutting edge research. Germans are smart and capable, but the German lifestyle is not for "super high tech" industry

The people I know that do cutting-edge research mostly do it because it's fun. That might be hard to imagine, but if you have great (government-funded) local hackerspaces where you can meet others, talk to them and built stuff together, it becomes a viable free-time activity. For example, I can schedule a Prusa (FDM) / Form (SLA) / Fuse (SLS) print job remotely and then quickly walk there to pick it up. If I need custom sheet metal or wood, I'll bring a USB stick with the DXF and then walk. That kind of infrastructure massively cuts down on iteration times. Plus it's great to get feedback in-person by other tinkerers when you pick things up.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#55

Post by seertaak »

anigbrowl wrote: post #34

Black_13 appears to be shadowbanned so I'm reproducing their comment here: black_13 11 minutes ago [dead] | parent | context | unvouch | favorite | on: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for res... The cynicism in these comments is telling, but misses crucial realities about Germany's capabilities and social achievements. Yes, Germany creates bureaucracies. Yes, Dorothee Bär's digital infrastructure record is…

Interesting comment, but Germany's much-vaunted Mittelstand is in its initial death throes. Key industries and IP are being auctioned off to the highest bidder, not the least, for lack of heirs. It isn't universally acknowledged, but the same processes that caused the US's manufacturing decay have been occurring in Germany; at roughly the same speed, but with a 30 year lag (since Agenda 2010) viz-a-vis the US.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#56

Post by mhitza »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #31
submeta wrote: post #10

Many German companies want „Digitalisierung“, workflow automation, process improvements, they want to use AI, LLMs, but when it comes to implementing all of that, they are drowning in bureaucracy. What Germans can do is create layers of bureaucracy.

The problem is not the bureaucracy. Nobody's stopping a local mid-market manufacturer from automating workflows. Or hindering a utility company from offering a better service process. The problem is corporate leadership. German companies tend to be run by people who are inflexible, uninspired, and cheap. Maybe it's in the culture. Compare this to Austria, where there's a cultural flair for the dramatic (and therefore…

> Compare this to Austria, where there's a cultural flair for the dramatic (and therefore an eagerness to stand out, even if it's weird) or Switzerland where enterprises, public or private, are not afraid to place big bets.

Can you call out with some examples for those of us unfamiliar with those 'big bets'?

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#57

Post by thinkindie »

submeta wrote: post #24
thinkindie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL - I can second that. There are a lot of memes about nothing screams more "Digitalisierung!" than having to send papers via fax. Or having to carry cash coz a lot of places don't even give you the option to pay by card (even though this seems to come to an end, hello 2025!)

Random German company: You open your intranet, manually search through hundreds of (pdf!) application-forms (because search is not implemented), downlod the right form, print it(!), fill the form, sign it, scan the paper, send it to the ticket system. That’s what they call „Digitalisierung“, because previously they had to send the printed paper-form to the helpdesk team.

luckily I haven't been working with such companies, I have had enough of my dose of Digitalisierung by interacting with public offices. But at least I can communicate with the Finanzamt via email, after signing a document where I made clear I understand that emails are not a safe communication tool (while random non-certified letters are, apparently).

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#58

Post by bcye »

calmoo wrote: post #42
submeta wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random German company: You open your intranet, manually search through hundreds of (pdf!) application-forms (because search is not implemented), downlod the right form, print it(!), fill the form, sign it, scan the paper, send it to the ticket system. That’s what they call „Digitalisierung“, because previously they had to send the printed paper-form to the helpdesk team.

I recently signed up for a simple prepaid phone plan in Germany (I have lived here for 2 years already, fully registered etc). I had to go through the full KYC process, after waiting over a week for a physical SIM card to be sent by post to me. After this, I wanted an eSIM (this was my original goal but this was not possible on initial signup). I had to contact customer support to send me one... by post. They only ac…

How recently? Nowadays there are a bunch of "app eSIM" companies competing in Germany that offer to get you an eSIM by just installing an app, KYC and credit card in 5 min

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#59

Post by geff82 »

Casteil wrote: post #45
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the bureaucracy. Nobody's stopping a local mid-market manufacturer from automating workflows. Or hindering a utility company from offering a better service process. The problem is corporate leadership. German companies tend to be run by people who are inflexible, uninspired, and cheap. Maybe it's in the culture. Compare this to Austria, where there's a cultural flair for the dramatic (and therefore…

>The problem is not the bureaucracy. I'm no expert by any means, but have you ever actually worked with Germans? The existence of Betriebsräte (Workers' Councils, as implemented in Germany), while not necessarily 'bad', comes with a mountain of bureaucracy...

… yeah, never give rights to workers! Back to the middle ages again!

Betriebsräte are actually a really sane measure once you think about it. And the more intelligent managers take them as an asset.

Re: Germany creates 'super–high-tech ministry' for research, technology, aerospace

#60

Post by ZeWaka »

fxtentacle wrote: post #43
pasabagi wrote: post #36

I actually think Germany would be really good at digital infrastructure if they stopped being afraid of friend computer. Germany is immensely proud of its history of creating standards - there's literally a place in berlin called DIN Platz. Germany is also very proud, and rightly so, in its history of mathematical innovation. Everything that isn't dross in the computer world is either a well designed standard, or a w…

We actually have a rather recent government agency called "DigitalHub" for that, too, which has been quite successful at pushing open standards and open source. Then there's https://zendis.de/#produkte whose sole purpose is to replace non-EU closed-source software, for example by replacing Windows + Office with Linux and the custom desktop software suite https://opendesk.eu/

openSUSE!
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