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Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

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Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#141

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #101
multimoon wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure where we launched into the metaphysics of if an AI can produce an emotionally charged meaningful work, but that wasn’t part of the debate here, I recall my stance being that the AI will never get as good as the human. Since photoshop is a tool like any other, “good enough” refers to making the barrier of entry to make a given work (in this case some image) so low that anyone could buy a photoshop license…

I'm not the person who responded, but I believe it came from a place of "what is art" (and you had used the word "artist"). My own position is that "art" can only be created by a human. AI can produce text, images, and sounds, and perhaps someday soon they can even create content that is practically indistinguishable from Picasso or Mozart, but they would still fail to be "art." So sure, an AI can create assets to pa…

The point would be to have an interesting and novel experience in an experimental medium - which has been a major driver of art since its beginning.

Also, realistically, most people want entertainment, not art (by your definition). They want to consume experiences that are very minor variations of on experiences they've already had, using familiar and unsurprising tropes/characters/imagery/twists/etc.

The idea that only humans can make that kind of work has already been disproven. I know a number of authors who are doing very well mass-producing various kinds of trashy genre fiction. Their readers not only don't care, they love the books.

I suspect future generations of AI will be better at creating compelling original art because the AI will have a more complete model of our emotional triggers - including novelty and surprise triggers - than we do ourselves.

So the work will be experienced as more emotional, soulful, insightful, deep, and so on than even the best human creators.

This may or may not be a good thing, but it seems as inevitable as machine superiority in chess and basic arithmetic.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#142

Post by spiderice »

jghn wrote: post #135
Molitor5901 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty left leaning and I don't like Bluesky. For me, it's too hostile and too much of an angry echo chamber. X is scattered wildly but I with muting I have been able to shape to get a more reasonable feed.

I don't understand why people struggle with either site. Follow only people you want to see. Both sites allow you to only see posts from those accounts. Problem solved.

Unless you want to follow Adobe, who were just driven out by a mob of angry people

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#143

Post by numpad0 »

multimoon wrote: post #75
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adobe is the one major company trying to be ethical Adobe is cannibalizing their paid C-Suite artists by pumping out image generators to their enterprise customers. How is that ethical? They are double dipping and screwing over their longtime paying artists

This is I think a narrow viewpoint that assumes the AI will ever get truly as good as a human artist. Will it get good enough for most people? Probably, but if not Adobe then four others will do the same thing, and as another commenter pointed out Adobe is the only one even attempting to make AI tools ethically. I think the hate is extremely misdirected. AI tech and tools aren’t just going to go away, and people aren…

  > AI tech and tools aren’t just going to go away, and people aren’t going to just not make a tool you don’t like
It could. Film photography effectively went away, dragging street snaps along it. If it continues to not make artistic sense, people will eventually move on.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#144

Post by jghn »

spiderice wrote: post #142
jghn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people struggle with either site. Follow only people you want to see. Both sites allow you to only see posts from those accounts. Problem solved.

Unless you want to follow Adobe, who were just driven out by a mob of angry people

There are a lot of people I'd love to see content from on all of the platforms who aren't where I want them to be, for a variety of reasons. That's not really a great argument.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#145

Post by thejohnconway »

ferguess_k wrote: post #43

The first comment seems to be interesting: > I don't like subscriptions but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest issue is Adobe's software has been getting worse as the years have passed. It's slow, incredibly buggy, their new features are often an embarrassment, and Adobe seems to do nothing other than increasing prices. And therein lies the issue with subscriptions - the user keeps paying higher prices and t…

There’s plenty of replacements which are fine. Many are better to use for many tasks. The problem is lock-in in professional contexts. Having a problem with some feature in a PSD? “I don’t wanna pay for Photoshop” isn’t usually an acceptable excuse.

If open source projects and other companies had gathered around an open file format, maybe there would be some leverage, but they all use their own formats.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#146

Post by cosmic_cheese »

adzm wrote: post #52
jmclnx wrote: post #7

Charging a subscription fee is crazy for a product that is very expensive. I do not know why they are still around.

I pay $20 a month for the educational discount and my kids get access to every Adobe product. It is an amazing deal. When you are an adult not in school you probably don't need "all apps" and it is relatively inexpensive to get just the product you use. Anyway, they are still around because they still have some of the best set of features, and are industry standards, though this may change in the future and in some a…

I’d much rather just pay the single time purchase prices they used to ask for. The subscription is only a “good deal” for the first 2-3 years, after which you end up paying more than you would have with the one-time.

The single time purchase also has the added benefit of letting me use that version however long I like. Personally I don’t need much of anything that’s been added since CS2, and as such a user I’d normally only be buying new versions of Photoshop when the one I own stops running on modern operating systems. It also means you’re not bombarded with UI shifting around for no good reason, some feature getting pushed in your face for the sake of some PM’s metrics, etc.

The only reason I even have a CC sub right now is because a credit card benefit essentially pays for it. If/when that benefit disappears so does my sub.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#147

Post by nitwit005 »

adzm wrote: post #28

Adobe is the one major company trying to be ethical with its AI training data and no one seems to even care. The AI features in Photoshop are the best around in my experience and come in handy constantly for all sorts of touchup work. Anyway I don't really think they deserve a lot of the hate they get, but I do hope this encourages development of viable alternatives to their products. Photoshop is still pretty much p…

While I agree about Adobe behaving more ethically, I suspect they simply talked to their customers, and decided they didn't have much choice. CELSYS, who makes Clip Studio, suffered a backlash and pulled their initial AI features: https://www.clipstudio.net/en/news/202212/02_01/

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#148

Post by maw »

jghn wrote: post #135
Molitor5901 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty left leaning and I don't like Bluesky. For me, it's too hostile and too much of an angry echo chamber. X is scattered wildly but I with muting I have been able to shape to get a more reasonable feed.

I don't understand why people struggle with either site. Follow only people you want to see. Both sites allow you to only see posts from those accounts. Problem solved.

And what about the people who sometimes post interesting things and sometimes post distilled insanity? They're incentivized to do so.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#149

Post by masswerk »

magicmicah85 wrote: post #73
masswerk wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's not what social media users want. How about posting tips, small micro courses, behind the scene stories about what motivated some choices in the app, anything useful or endearing? Not just harvesting likes and account names?

I’m talking about when anyone post on social media. It’s all about engagement. People don’t post on social media in the hopes that no one sees or replies to them. So I find it silly that people are upset at Adobe for having the most generic “hey we joined, show us what you’re working on” versus the useless engagement posts that are templates of “most people can’t figure out what the answer is” when the image is “two…

Yes, I have no problem believing that this is what Adobe wants and/or a certain category of posters. But, what's the motivation for answering? (Notably, this was about "what's fuelling your creativity, right now?" and not "show us what you're working on", about circumstantialities instead of substance.) Will Adobe notice? Probably not, they just want stats to go up. This is not a conversation. It's more like IRL going up to a person and saying, "Talk!", and immediately turning the back on them to engage the next one.

From my own experience, when moving to Bluesky, the absence of engagement posters felt like a breath of fresh air. Meanwhile, with the broader influx from X/Twitter, there are some posts which are more in this style (e.g., "what was your favorite xy" nostalgia posts, or slightly more adopted to the platform, "this was my favorite xy (image), what was yours?"), but I usually see these going unanswered. It's just not the style of the platform, which is probably more about letting people know and/or about actual conversations, or just doing your thing. So, this gambit is more likely to be received as "oh no" and "corporate communications, of course", maybe as "yet another lack of commitment." So don't expect congratulations on this, rather, it may even unlock the wrath of some… The post may have done much better without this call for engagement. Just say "hi", if this is what it's about. (Actually, this is kind of a custom, new accounts just saying hi.)

Most importantly, if you're doing public relations or marketing, it's still your job to meet your audiences, not theirs to adopt to you. And for the lack of understanding of these basics, this gambit may have come across as passive aggressive.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#150

Post by nitwit005 »

megaman821 wrote: post #14

As a lurker on both Bluesky and Twitter, I find Bluesky is a much more hostile place. Twitter is much more absurd but there is not as much anger.

I didn't get much negativity on Twitter, and after moving the Bluesky the same is true.

The experience of a person following fantasy football stuff, and another person following politics, will be totally different, regardless of website.

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