Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

College was my biggest mistake

stevecorona.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 192 posts

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#121

Post by glenra »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #115
ek wrote: post #64

I am currently receiving an education in computer science with the intent to pursue a Ph.D. following graduation. I grow somewhat tired of all this anti-college talk - at the bike shop a while back, the worker asked what I was majoring in, I told him CS, and he asked if getting a college degree was really worth it, as if he thought it wasn't. Yes, it's worth it if what you plan to do is go to grad school or enter aca…

Why do Google, Microsoft, IBM, Cisco, etc keep coming over to universities if it's so outdated and useless. Why aren't they out on Tumblr or photo sharing sites trying to work on problems and recruit? They could save a lot of money on these plane trips by just looking at blogs! Don't they know any better? :)

Um, Google often recruits by posting puzzles on billboards or in magazines and by running contests and by paying headhunters. I mean, I'm sure they go to universities too, but they certainly don't recruit exclusively there.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#122

Post by Crake »

tkahn6 wrote: post #66
enjo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that a collegiate level composition class doesn't improve writing skills at least a little bit?

That's somewhat of a straw man. I have no doubt it improves writing skills at least a little bit on average. I contend that it doesn't make a difference in any absolute sense. I received AP credit and thus passed out of Freshman Composition so my experience is slightly different. In my AP class, everyone's writing skills improved but no one who was a bad writer became a good writer. If you ask any author the most eff…

Yeah, I agree with this. My English skills have always been top of the line (99% on standardized tests, 5s on APs, etc), and I fully accredit this to the fact that I have been reading CONSTANTLY since I was little. You have to develop an ability to hear the written word inside your head as your eyes move across the page--a lot of lower functioning people don't seem to have this, as indicated by the bizarre sentence constructions they vomit all over their word processor.

A knack for sentence flow isn't practiced, it is absorbed. Want to be a good writer? You need a vocabulary to match. Those of us who acquired extensive vocabularies through osmosis can tell when a lesser person has whipped out the thesaurus in an attempt to sound "smart." (usually, the fancy words they try to insert just end up hilariously misused, since they don't understand the different shades of meaning attached to them. You can only get that through observation of the word in its natural setting.)

As anecdata, I know someone with an English degree from our flagship state school who can't manage to comprehend the difference between "its" and "it's," "your" and "you're," and routinely mangles grammar in a manner absolutely horrifying even before you take into account the fact they studied English for OVER FOUR YEARS and still never managed to grasp the proper use of the possessive.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#123

Post by Crake »

FaceKicker wrote: post #71

Not that this is a particularly insightful point, but I keep wondering, why does it never come up in these discussions that college is FUN? Regardless of its financial value or lack thereof, it really is an experience like no other.

Probably because many colleges cost like 200K nowadays. Fun's justifiable maybe when you're graduating with, I don't know, 0-10K in debt, but at 200K you've really gotta question whether or not it's worth it. A lot of people have their four years of fun and then end up slaving away as indentured servants to Sallie Mae for the rest of their lives.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#124

Post by tsahyt »

RealGeek wrote: post #30
danielrm26 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think even great programmers who get solid on-the-job training doing a startup job will have major gaps as they progress. There is something to be said for learning fundamentals.

Is there anything we can't learn from Internet? Give a kid access to computer and Internet, and he will find his way out. This was experimented with kids in Indian slums, who never went to school and can not even read/write. http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/thestory.htm...

The internet is a great resource but never a replacement for a great teacher. There's so much to learn that most people don't even realize that only a good teacher can show you. During the first years at university I was confronted with so many things I never thought I'd have to learn which proved to be invaluable.

Additionally, a great teacher makes you learn things a lot quicker than you'd learn them yourself, because of the insights he can give you.

Oh and btw, I've found textbooks to be infinitely more useful than the internet.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#125

Post by Crake »

sp332 wrote: post #72
aik wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad this has been said -- this is very true. I have two comments: >> "College was my biggest mistake?" ...it sure as hell isn't mine. How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Firstly, opportunity cost is an impossible thing to calculate with certainty, especially when dealing with something so incredibly costly both in terms of time and money. If you find yourself reasonably discerning,…

The job lead I got from my college advisor alone was worth the opportunity cost. And the humanities classes opened my mind up in ways wikipedia just can't dream of.

Well, I guess you could take a humanities class...or, you could, you know, get a library card.

Believe it or not, there are actually sources of information outside of wikipedia and $1000000000/credit college courses. Amazing, right?

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#126

Post by silves89 »

The value of a university education does not principally lie in how much money you can make afterwards. Many people go to university to learn, to build a philosophy for life, to meet and engage with other engaged people.

But I paid orders of magnitude less so maybe that gives me the freedom to be more contemplative.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#127

Post by Crake »

lsc wrote: post #105
aik wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's exactly the part that is so hard to quantify -- the liberal arts component. The purpose of all gen eds is basically to "open your mind", ie. to refine you as a human being. But what high school student goes to college for this purpose? Or a better question, what high school student truly knows that, or understands what that means? The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduati…

I love how so many liberals that would never dream of insulting someone for being poor have this attitude that if you didn't go to college, you are some kind of uncultured hick. Somehow beneath all those baristas with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt. >The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time. This is the opposite of what I saw before the recession. Maybe I am…

Yeah, I tried to warn my friends, but they all looked down on the idea. Now that they're out of college, most of them are working retail. They have no idea how much they owe or when it might be paid off--math is scary, so they just defer and defer and make the minimum payment when necessary.

Of course, given their relative inability to comprehend fiscal realities, almost all of them live with their parents. Any free money they have they immediately blow on unnecessary things (trips, designer clothing, etc) instead of even trying to get out from under their loan debt.

I really hope that people come around some day, because I'm really sick of people treating me like shit for actually getting a worthwhile degree that'll lead to a career that can pay the bills. Not all of us have parents we can move back in with, you know? But even that concept is offensive to them.

People spending money they don't have on useless status signifiers just pisses me off. So irresponsible.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#128

Post by lallysingh »

Good God man.

I wasn't born in the US, but came over young. The whole college evaluation, application, and selection process was one giant set of mysteries to me. Yet, this is all about exactly those questions. At least I feel better, apparently I could've done a lot worse.

Cost - debt or opportunity cost of cash. Treat it as exactly that, a risk you're taking for some expected gain. A high-ranked, expensive school is only worth it if you're going to get something out of it. Your ability to withstand debt (or cash burned) is runway you can use for other things. I'm sorry this guy spent a mercedes benz on stuff he didn't want. But he shouldn't have spent a mercedes benz. My highest undergrad tuition over 4 years was $4k (after fees) per semester. Without a strong interest in a particular field that the school's well-known for, I don't see why it's worth it. And if you're not sure, there's always grad school. People tend to look only at the school of your last degree.

Specialization - I can't understand how people choose majors without looking hard at the ease of getting a job in the field, the effort spent in the degree, how much they like the topic, and the amount you can expect to make. Somehow it turned into a "what's your calling?" question, which is an asshole question to ask anyone, much less some poor 18 year old coming out of 12 years of highly homogenizing k-12.

Frankly, if I had supreme fascist control over a school, departments with poor (say, Finally, what happened to trade school? Les time, higher per-class-hour relevance to the primary goal, and it's a job you can explain to your friends. My CS dept had a 90% drop rate over 4 years (300 freshman, 30 graduating seniors). A lot of those kids would've been happier in trade school, instead of hopping over to business (or business IT). Paid at least as well, and with less debt.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#129

Post by mayanksinghal »

aik wrote: post #59
jmduke wrote: post #6

Most articles and comments about higher education commit the gravest sin of thought: they assume what is right for one person (namely, the author) must be right for everyone. I'm enrolled in a public institution pursuing a double major, working two jobs because I'm also middle class. I have a good -- not great -- GPA, and I get to do amazing and interesting things every day; I got into programming after volunteering…

I'm glad this has been said -- this is very true. I have two comments: >> "College was my biggest mistake?" ...it sure as hell isn't mine. How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Firstly, opportunity cost is an impossible thing to calculate with certainty, especially when dealing with something so incredibly costly both in terms of time and money. If you find yourself reasonably discerning,…

> How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure?

Well then how does the author knows that his assessment is the correct one? I agree with the GP for three reasons: (1) I am not a super intelligent, 140 IQed, childhood prodigy who can learn so much faster than most if not all of my peers that I find the courses in my university program slow/unnecessary. (2) I fail at keeping myself motivated for months without direction, peer support and proper schedule. I am more likely to slag off in a side project that I am doing than in a course project that I have to do. (3) I am also more likely to learn things that are absolutely necessary but I personally don't find interesting (Logic Design, for example was one such topic).

> people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am

I think that is largely a function of how good the university is and how likely you are to identify motivated people. I was lucky to find some really motivated people around me who would challenge everything they encounter. I am much more passive than they are during sleep and just observing them struggle to tackle the weirdest problems was worth it. I am of course, not from a US university. My 5 year program (B.Tech. + M.Tech) would have costed me not more than $20K as a large part of my academic expenses are subsidized by our government. But all I can say is that at a good university, neither is this behaviour unusual or is it rare.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#130

Post by crander »

UK-AL wrote: post #81
scoith wrote: post #69

Lol! "I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class." Really genius? "Calculus B: F" Any it says repeated ! Why didn't you take five afternoons and graduate then? It is a well-known fact that becoming a "high-level" web programmer doesn't require brains or a degree. Now this post makes it clear that, even such people who miserably fail to get a degree can write PHP programs and Javas…

Yeah thats the thing. There's so much more to cs than learning rails or whatever. Learning the fundamentals of cs theory, machine learning so forth, make you a better developer indirectly. Yet a lot of this stuff is not covered in detail on web, sure there plenty of web tutorials, but a lot are superficial, following a "how to" format for HTML Php etc. Only now with edx and coursea are decent courses coming out.

Accountability is what school offers you. You are forced to work the homework problems and then you really learn. You can do this on your own but without the social motivation it is much less likely. Udacity, etc. are solving this problem for online education now in CS.
Post reply on HN