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Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

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Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#111

Post by Tycho »

stult wrote: post #54
tptacek wrote: post #37

Just a quick note that this film really holds up, like weirdly well given its subject and vintage. If you haven't watched it in a long time, add it to your list.

Similarly the Clancy book Red Storm Rising really holds up well, and weirdly may be one of the best primers on Russian military practices, culture, and capabilities as the force was constituted during the first year of their full scale invasion of Ukraine.

Brilliant novel. I was thinking about it recently. Many years after reading it, I can still remember many of the battle/combat sequences as if I’d seen them on screen. Maybe someone could do a big Band of Brothers type adaptation, given how far along VFX have come.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#112

Post by hylaride »

dylan604 wrote: post #89
psunavy03 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably RSR vis a vis Ukraine in 2022 is a great primer on just how much the Russian military had decayed from their mid-80s Soviet peak. You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be. The USAF A-10 fleet was expected to have been wiped out in approximately 2-3 weeks of fighting based on expected…

you also need to understand that the Ukrainians... really really do not want to be part of Russia again. that's what I take away from it. they like being independent and are willing to fight this hard to stay that way. I can only imagine their utter disappointment with the outcome of the US election. but to your point, it does say a whole helluva lot about the inabilities of the Russians too. The fact they are using…

> Like, is Russia reserving its soliders on the Western front for NATO reasons rather than just using everything against Ukraine?

The Russian government is treading a fine line domestically. For most Russians, the war is a not relevant to them. They do not want to fight, which is why when it became clear Russia wasn't going to have a quick victory, there was one quick and dirty mobilization that mostly sucked up people from the outer regions, in particular ethnic minorities. Russia is also dealing with acute labour shortages because of a variety of factors, including bad demographics, at least a million people leaving the country, and demand from arms manufacturers. This is why you hear about military contracts being as high as 50x the average yearly salary.

This is why there are North Koreans fighting; there was already a program that essentially sends North Koreans to work in parts of Russia as essentially slave labour that the NK govn't gets the money for. This was just an extension of that, with the added bonus for the North Koreans that they will get their first exposure to combat in decades. There are probably a few hundred Chinese soldiers (as well as people from a host of other countries) that are in it for the money, too.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#113

Post by dugmartin »

dylan604 wrote: post #88
stult wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly the Clancy book Red Storm Rising really holds up well, and weirdly may be one of the best primers on Russian military practices, culture, and capabilities as the force was constituted during the first year of their full scale invasion of Ukraine.

RSR is one of my favorite Clancy books, and I return to it quite often. It was the first book I read in my teens with such a descriptive telling of what an attack on an air base could be like. How the attack allowed for the runways still able to be used with "minor" repairs and then reused by the over taking forces. Mike's journey is probably my favorite plot line.

I make the mistake every few years of picking up my battered paperback copy and then end up spending an entire weekend reading the entire thing again. Such a good set of stories. Mike’s reply to the radio operator when they stress test his voice is probably my favorite passage.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#114

Post by [deleted] »

gwbennett wrote: post #35

Great read on how ILM made the shots. As a crew member on the USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716), we took many of the cast and crew out to sea for 24 hours before they made the movie to get a feel for what sub-life was like before they made the movie. All the cast and crew were great, and I think it made the movie better. Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo…

[deleted]

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#115

Post by emeril »

gwbennett wrote: post #35

Great read on how ILM made the shots. As a crew member on the USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716), we took many of the cast and crew out to sea for 24 hours before they made the movie to get a feel for what sub-life was like before they made the movie. All the cast and crew were great, and I think it made the movie better. Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo…

for those who didn't realize - same guy is Walton Goggins father in S03 of White Lotus

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#116

Post by dylan604 »

hylaride wrote: post #112
dylan604 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you also need to understand that the Ukrainians... really really do not want to be part of Russia again. that's what I take away from it. they like being independent and are willing to fight this hard to stay that way. I can only imagine their utter disappointment with the outcome of the US election. but to your point, it does say a whole helluva lot about the inabilities of the Russians too. The fact they are using…

> Like, is Russia reserving its soliders on the Western front for NATO reasons rather than just using everything against Ukraine? The Russian government is treading a fine line domestically. For most Russians, the war is a not relevant to them. They do not want to fight, which is why when it became clear Russia wasn't going to have a quick victory, there was one quick and dirty mobilization that mostly sucked up peop…

From all of this, it doesn't really seem like they would be much of a threat to NATO. Except for the nukes. As far as traditional forces, there seems to be a disconnect between the fear of vs the credible threat. Or I'm just grossly misjudging things and it's a good example of why I'm not involved in any threat assessment type of position. Underestimate your opponent at your own peril type of thing

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#117

Post by somerandomqaguy »

psunavy03 wrote: post #68
RajT88 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bravery is there, but they just don't have the same ability to integrate the details at scale such as fires, logistics, and large-scale joint operations, because they're still trying to shake off their Soviet past. Welllll. I saw posted here last week (cannot find it now), that the US helped them with the logistics and recon a lot more than was previously known. Like, "Shoot your artillery here at this time, an…

There are two things a NATO/Western military has that the Ukrainians don't fully have yet: the technology and assets you're talking about, but also officers and noncoms who've been brought up in the type of warfighting culture that can best make use of it. There's a great article from the start of the war written by a retired Army three-star here: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-her... The re…

I wouldn't say it was just that. The Ukrainians realized they were in trouble in 2014 when Russia lopped off Crimea, and ordered a painful introspective to highlight all the weaknesses of their military.

They spent 8 years overhauling their military and learning from invited western forces to prepare for an invasion that they hoping beyond all would never come. And it paid off in spades.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#118

Post by dylan604 »

dugmartin wrote: post #113
dylan604 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSR is one of my favorite Clancy books, and I return to it quite often. It was the first book I read in my teens with such a descriptive telling of what an attack on an air base could be like. How the attack allowed for the runways still able to be used with "minor" repairs and then reused by the over taking forces. Mike's journey is probably my favorite plot line.

I make the mistake every few years of picking up my battered paperback copy and then end up spending an entire weekend reading the entire thing again. Such a good set of stories. Mike’s reply to the radio operator when they stress test his voice is probably my favorite passage.

I always wanted to see this book turned into a movie. I had hopes for it since it wasn't part of the Jack Ryan series. I can't imagine Larry Bond not wanting to earn some extra cash from that kind of deal. Of the Jack Ryan series, I had always hoped for a Cardinal In The Kremlin movie too. I wanted the laser scene to come alive even if they made it along the lines of Spies Like Us. Lasers are cool! pew! pew! was the main part of wanting it as a movie to be honest

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#119

Post by creer »

psunavy03 wrote: post #68
RajT88 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bravery is there, but they just don't have the same ability to integrate the details at scale such as fires, logistics, and large-scale joint operations, because they're still trying to shake off their Soviet past. Welllll. I saw posted here last week (cannot find it now), that the US helped them with the logistics and recon a lot more than was previously known. Like, "Shoot your artillery here at this time, an…

There are two things a NATO/Western military has that the Ukrainians don't fully have yet: the technology and assets you're talking about, but also officers and noncoms who've been brought up in the type of warfighting culture that can best make use of it. There's a great article from the start of the war written by a retired Army three-star here: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-her... The re…

Fantastic article thanks! Good look into career postings. And it seems the Ukrainians worked hard in the few years of explicit notice they got.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#120

Post by hinkley »

vonmoltke wrote: post #97
hinkley wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adhesion and cohesion always fuck up scenes that combine scale models and water. Splashes always look very wrong, and in the case of a submersible bubbles could be a problem. Smoke chamber makes sense. Although in the days since “O Brother Where Art Thou?”, when they added dust-yellow color to the entire movie in post, maybe there are other ways now, if you didn’t want to go entirely to CGI.

> Adhesion and cohesion always fuck up scenes that combine scale models and water. Splashes always look very wrong Like the terrible model work in In Harm's Way .

Time Bandits was pretty bad and so as I recall was Clash of the Titans. OG versions of both.
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