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Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

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Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#71
post #66

I really liked the movie which was pretty faithful to Clancy's book and, I think, to submarine life itself but the one thing I didn't like about it was the choice of Sean Connery as Ramius. For a supposed Russian speaker, his Scottish accent was a bit jarring to my ears. He did a great job with the role but the believability was compromised. I be curious to know who the producers considered for that part and why they…

Listen. If you're watching Connery in a film in 1990, you've had decades to learn to suspend disbelief regarding his accent skills.

Especially the Highlander, a film set mostly in Scotland and Connery is supposed to be Spanish...

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#72

Great read on how ILM made the shots. As a crew member on the USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716), we took many of the cast and crew out to sea for 24 hours before they made the movie to get a feel for what sub-life was like before they made the movie. All the cast and crew were great, and I think it made the movie better. Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo…

You read the book? I’m curious how all of the operational details and jargon held up to a real sailor.

yes, I read the book before I got to the boat when I was at nuclear reactor prototype training in Idaho. Read it on the long bus rides back and forth to the site. Yes, it was good and pretty operationally accurate. All the sub lingo etc, is accurate. Some of the actors on the bridge of the Dallas were active duty sub sailors at the time.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#73
post #61

Great read on how ILM made the shots. As a crew member on the USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716), we took many of the cast and crew out to sea for 24 hours before they made the movie to get a feel for what sub-life was like before they made the movie. All the cast and crew were great, and I think it made the movie better. Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo…

>Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo. Terrific character. I just love the competency and leadership. Hopefully your Cpt. Fargo was just as good. My favorite exchange from the movie is when Jonesy brings his report to the captain. He's aware of how crazy this theory sounds, especially when his very serious and hard-to-read captain rephrases it back to…

Capt Tom Fargo was better. As you learn from that YouTube video, he went on to run 7th Fleet as an Admiral. The stuff we did while he was CO was important in the Cold War for the security of the US.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#74
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly the Clancy book Red Storm Rising really holds up well, and weirdly may be one of the best primers on Russian military practices, culture, and capabilities as the force was constituted during the first year of their full scale invasion of Ukraine.

Arguably RSR vis a vis Ukraine in 2022 is a great primer on just how much the Russian military had decayed from their mid-80s Soviet peak. You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be. The USAF A-10 fleet was expected to have been wiped out in approximately 2-3 weeks of fighting based on expected…

> You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be.

*With the full benefit of hindsight*, most experts that I have read seem to agree that (ignoring nuclear weapons and staying completely conventional) the Russians were as a whole stronger on land in Europe than the west up until the mid-1970s, when western technological advancements started to remove the numbers advantages and were hard for the economically stagnating communist countries to keep up with. By the mid 1980s, the only real direct advantage the soviets had was a closer supply line than the bulk of NATO's power, which was the USA.

There are records showing the shock that Soviet military experts had at the effectiveness of the western stealth and jamming equipment that was used in the 1991 Gulf War (that was waged right at the tail end of the USSR's existence). It's much more regarded now that had a full blown NATO/Warsaw pact conflict occurred in the 1980s, the Soviets would have likely lost had they not effectively destroyed NATO's air power early on, though to be fair most experts in the west weren't as sure just how effective their kit would end up being.

Even taking air power out of the equation, the armoured kill ratios would have favoured NATO if it was even 1/4 the ratio it was against the Iraqis. Again here, the only advantage the Soviets would have had was if they got complete surprise before NATO could mobilise.

> NATO would have been fighting them AND the entire Warsaw Pact (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland et al).

There are mixed signals in the archives we have access to about how well (or more accurately reliable) a good chunk of the Warsaw Pact would have been if the cold war turned hot. Half the Red Army's presence in these countries was to threaten them and keep a lid on any revolutions that cropped up (as they did inCzechoslovakia and Hungary as hard violent examples, and Poland in the early 1980s as a soft one). It was very nebulous with Romania in particular that it would participate in anything other than an full "unprovoked attack" from NATO.

> The Soviets wouldn't have had 30+ years of Russian societal decay and would have had the advantage of sheer mass.

There was already decay by the 1980s. Corruption was rife in the Soviet army, especially during and after the Afghanistan conflict. There are many documented cases of Soviet officers in Europe selling fuel earmarked for the army to local civilians, among other things. Many also participated with opium smuggling from Afghanistan to Europe as Soviet officers had some freedom to move around western parts of Germany unmolested, in particular West Berlin.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#75
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen. If you're watching Connery in a film in 1990, you've had decades to learn to suspend disbelief regarding his accent skills.

Especially the Highlander, a film set mostly in Scotland and Connery is supposed to be Spanish...

My favorite egregious accent snafu was The Wind and the Lion where he was supposed to be Moroccan tribal leader.

Second favorite was the mad barking which was supposed to be Japanese in Rising Sun.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#76

Great read on how ILM made the shots. As a crew member on the USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716), we took many of the cast and crew out to sea for 24 hours before they made the movie to get a feel for what sub-life was like before they made the movie. All the cast and crew were great, and I think it made the movie better. Actor Scott Glenn, who plays the Captain of Dallas, modeled his character after our Captain, Tom Fargo…

Google search is weirdly hallucinating saying "Theodore Scott Glenn is an American actor and Distinguished Professor at Rutgers University". As far as I can tell the actor and professor are two different people. Am I wrong? Can't tell what is true/false anymore.

I ran into a similar issue when researching Bill Paxton, a computer scientist who worked on the Mother of All Demos. Google's AI told me that he was also known for his roles in Aliens and Titanic, but that's a different person. I told Bill Paxton (the computer scientist) about this and he found it amusing.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably RSR vis a vis Ukraine in 2022 is a great primer on just how much the Russian military had decayed from their mid-80s Soviet peak. You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be. The USAF A-10 fleet was expected to have been wiped out in approximately 2-3 weeks of fighting based on expected…

> You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be. * With the full benefit of hindsight* , most experts that I have read seem to agree that (ignoring nuclear weapons and staying completely conventional) the Russians were as a whole stronger on land in Europe than the west up until the mid-1970s, when…

> There are records showing the shock that Soviet military experts had at the effectiveness of the western stealth and jamming equipment that was used in the 1991 Gulf War (that was waged right at the tail end of the USSR's existence).

> There are mixed signals in the archives we have access to about how well (or more accurately reliable) a good chunk of the Warsaw Pact would have been if the cold war turned hot.

Are there any decent books on this? Not because I'm doubting you, just because it would be a good read.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#78
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watched it again recently — still great. Alec Baldwin is a great Jack Ryan. It's such different role than what he's become known for since.

Now watch the uncut version of Das Boot undubbed (5hr8m long).

> 5hr8m long

pass

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only seems wild in light of how the US relates to its military. For all the hype about life in the russian navy, you are still much more likely to see sailors suntanning on a russian ship than any USN boat. Look at this footage. Look at the guys on the helo deck. When russian sailors have time off, they take it seriously. https://youtu.be/fVXxTS2f8CE

My ship celebrated July 4, 1994 off the coast of Mogadishu by holding a “steel beach picnic” on the flight deck. Everyone ran around under the noon equatorial sun in swimsuits while people grilled burgers, set up little inflatable pools to lounge in, played volleyball and soccer, and otherwise acted like we were at Ocean Beach on a hot day. At night we had fireworks (including rounds from the 5” guns) and the CIWS sh…

USN certainly does events. That is that culture. The Russians are more about day-to-day comforts: fewer big party days but more everyday stuff.

Re: Hunt for Red October 1990 (2016)

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably RSR vis a vis Ukraine in 2022 is a great primer on just how much the Russian military had decayed from their mid-80s Soviet peak. You can study histories and interviews from the late Cold War about just how much of a bloodbath the NATO militaries expected a Russian invasion of West Germany to be. The USAF A-10 fleet was expected to have been wiped out in approximately 2-3 weeks of fighting based on expected…

> The bravery is there, but they just don't have the same ability to integrate the details at scale such as fires, logistics, and large-scale joint operations, because they're still trying to shake off their Soviet past. Welllll. I saw posted here last week (cannot find it now), that the US helped them with the logistics and recon a lot more than was previously known. Like, "Shoot your artillery here at this time, an…

This is the article you are referring to (gift link): https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/29/world/europe/...
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