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College was my biggest mistake

stevecorona.com

11–20 of 192 posts

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#11
If you want to hustle, create great internet products and live a creative free, independent life then college and it's massive debt may not be right for you.

But if you want a lower risk, stable life with good long term prospects then college may not be such a bad idea.

One of the things college (actually my masters degree) taught me is that the answer to most important questions is 'it depends'. There is no one size fits all approach to most big decisions in life - that I think is wonderful because it leads to such diversity.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#12

The problem with this line of argument is that it is anecdotal. Yes, it’s great that this guy has gone on to earn a lot of money, but that result is not typical. This is the data from Australia: Over the working lifetime of a university graduate the financial gain generated from income is more than $1.5 million or 70 per cent more than those whose highest qualification is Year 12, even after taking into account the f…

Right, but it seems more accurate to attribute the income discrepancy to the productivity of those people, rather than "oh you went to uni here's extra money". This means we need to decide if "people who are super-productive tend to go to uni at some point" or "uni produces super-productive people".

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#13
The most interesting thing about this is the feedback loop. These kind of stories seem to strike a chord and in turn more people will post about this.

Yet the discussion always goes along the same lines. The problem is that all of these are unavoidably anecdotal in nature and thus something that is basically impossible to discuss.

Sure, it might have worked out for some and might not have worked out for others. The problem is that everyone has their own experience with this, which basically confirms or denies other anecdotal evidence.

These posts pop on HN a lot, yet I find them useless. Sure it worked out (or didn't), but nobody is able to tell how things would have been if the poster had stayed in college (or in other cases, if he had left college).

All these submissions seem to do is get the "anti-college" crowd on here happy, giving them more anecdotal evidence that really, see, all I ever said is right because that dude had a similar experience while at the same time bringing out everyone for whom college did do something to scream at those who disagrees.

Repeat ad infinitum...

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#14
College was actually exactly what this guy needed. He found his passion, discovered what did and did not work for him in terms of learning, and managed to enter the job market at a time where people with his level of experience and expertise could demand salary like what he has now. Offsetting a few years in either direction and he likely would have entered the job market at a very BAD time for people without college degrees.

"I'm in the middle of college but like work a lot better, I'll finish someday" is very different than "I never went to college, and spent the last few years making ends meat. I programed at home, and I'm great. Give me $100k." Pretending those are the same is just intellectually dishonest.

If he thinks college was his biggest mistake and he's doing really well after doing some college (and still trading on college acceptance/progress as part of his contract negotiation), well that's just a poor understanding of cause and effect.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#15
Sorry -- I don't like these kinds of posts. They just incite the same sort of college-vs-no-college debate I've heard a million times. I think there's some kind of "hacker" pride that makes people act as if not attending college is "bucking the system" or circumventing some dumb thing the Man tells you that you have to do in order to succeed. It's not.

One size doesn't fit all. If not going to college works better -- do that. If going to college works better -- do that. I did both, sort of: I went to college but studied literature and philosophy as an undergraduate while working tech jobs to pay the bills. I loved my classes but also self-taught myself the skills I used for work. And I got exposed to a lot of stuff that I never would have learned if I had just worked and not taken those classes. That worked for me.

I'm not sure what we're supposed to get out of some single anecdotal experience that this guy didn't go to college and turned out okay. Except to say: I'm happy that's the case! Self-education rules.

Also: Can we please stop acting like college has to cost $44k/yr. It doesn't. State schools. They rule. They're relatively cheap. If you're unsure about college then, yes, going $200k in debt over something you're not sure you want is dumb. Especially when there are cheaper options.

Thank you. Drive safe.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#16
I feel like everything I read nowadays on this topic has had the tone of "don't go to college it's a waste of time" etc etc. While I agree it's definitely not for everybody, I don't agree with it being a waste of time or that nobody should go to school (even if you're not pursue a career a law/medicine/etc).

I have self-taught myself everything I've learned in software engineering, beginning in middle school when I picked up a VB6 book. Then through high school/college with some C++, Delphi, and then eventually moving to the LAMP stack and beyond. Although even before getting into college I knew exactly what I wanted to do (I was bitten by the entrepreneurial bug early in my high school years) and knew college wasn't going to do much in helping me achieve my dreams, I was still excited for those 4 years.

I wanted to have that college experience rather than looking back years later in life and saying "man I wish I got to see what that was like." But more importantly than the experience of college, I wanted to learn things I knew I'd seldom get the chance to later on in life, such as philosophy, art, history, astronomy, finance, theology, etc. While many argue that you can learn those things on your own without having to go to college, and yes I agree anyone can order an eBook or go to your locally library and pick up a bunch of books on those various topics, but it won't be the same as getting taught by a professor who has spent a great part of their life learning, teaching, researching and working in those various fields.

My goals in life have been not only to be a successful entrepreneur and a great engineer, but to also be a knowledgable man overall, one who is well versed in a number of topics. And while college won't give you all of that in 4 years, it'll definitely help you get started on your journey.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#17

The problem with this line of argument is that it is anecdotal. Yes, it’s great that this guy has gone on to earn a lot of money, but that result is not typical. This is the data from Australia: Over the working lifetime of a university graduate the financial gain generated from income is more than $1.5 million or 70 per cent more than those whose highest qualification is Year 12, even after taking into account the f…

different viewpoint on ROI calculations:

The average tuition cost is approximately $16,000 per year. Plus assume another $10,000 in living costs, books, etc. $26,000 in total for a complete cost of $104,000 in a 4 year period. Some people choose to go more expensive by going to a private college and some people choose to go a little cheaper by going public but this is an average. Also, a huge assumption is that its just for a 4 year period. According to the Department of Education, only 54% of undergraduates graduate within 6 years. So for the 46% that don’t graduate, or take 10 years to graduate, this is a horrible investment. But lets assume your children are in the brilliant first half who finish within six years (and hopefully within four). Is it worth it? First, let’s look at it completely from a monetary perspective. Over the course of a lifetime, according to CollegeBoard, a college graduate can be expected to earn $800,000 more than his counterpart that didn’t go to college. $800,000 is a big spread and it could potentially separate the haves from the have-nots. But who has and who doesn’t? If I took that $104,000 and I chose to invest it in a savings account that had interest income of 5% per year I’d end up with an extra $1.4 million dollars over a 50 year period. A full $600,000 more. That $600,000 is a lot of extra money an 18 year old could look forward to in her retirement. I also think the $800,000 quoted above is too high. Right now most motivated kids who have the interest and resources to go to college think it’s the only way to go if they want a good job. If those same kids decided to not go to college my guess is they would quickly close the gap on that $800,000 spread. There are other factors as well. I won’t be spending $104,000 per child when my children, ages 10 and 7, decide to go to college. College costs have historically gone up much faster than inflation. Since 1978, cost of living has gone up three-fold. Medical costs, much to the horror of everyone in Congress, has gone up six-fold. And college education has gone up a whopping tenfold. This is beyond the housing bubble, the stock market bubble, any bubble you can think of. So how can people afford college? Well, how has the US consumer afforded anything? They borrow it, of course. The average student now graduates with a $23,000 debt burden. Up from $13,000 12 years ago. Last year, student borrowings totaled $75 billion, up 25% from the year before. If students go on to graduate degrees such as law degrees they can see their debt burden soar to $200,000 or more. And the easy borrowing convinces colleges that they can raise prices even more. http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2010/02/dont-send-your-kids-to-.... http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/10-more-reasons-why-par.... http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/01/8-alternatives-to-colle....

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#18
$44k a year for tuition is ridiculous and entirely not worth it if your primary goal is to get a job that does not require a college degree.

However, paying a reasonable amount for tuition with the goal of personal enrichment and/or getting a job that requires a college degree is certainly worth it.

As a current college student and part-time developer, I feel like college was a great choice for me-- even though I could've landed a full-time programming job without it. Although the curriculum can be monotonous at times, just having the chance to talk and work with other computer science students on a daily basis has been enlightening.

Yes, you can teach yourself programming-- but college can help (really!).

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#19
Success is sitting right infront of you.

But if he'd finished college, he'd know that "infront" is two words!

But in all honesty, I also dropped out of college and I agree with the sentiment of this post wholeheartedly.

In fact, I might go a step further and say that the fear and uncertainty that came with not having a degree actually pushed me to hustle harder than I think I would've otherwise.

Re: College was my biggest mistake

#20

Success is sitting right infront of you. But if he'd finished college, he'd know that "infront" is two words! But in all honesty, I also dropped out of college and I agree with the sentiment of this post wholeheartedly. In fact, I might go a step further and say that the fear and uncertainty that came with not having a degree actually pushed me to hustle harder than I think I would've otherwise.

> In fact, I might go a step further and say that the fear and uncertainty that came with not having a degree actually pushed me to hustle harder than I think I would've otherwise.

Stress caused by feeling behind is not a strong endorsement in my opinion.

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