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A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#921

Post by trustinmenowpls »

viccis wrote: post #920
trustinmenowpls wrote: post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you got your terms confused, regardless Kristallnacht == intifada. People calling for a globalized intifada are literally calling for genocide of Jews everyone (including Columbia).

No, my terms are correct. The bailey is: "they are calling for the genocide of Jews!!!" Once challenged, you will retreat to the more easily proven: "they are advocating for the return the land to the Palestinian people", as you just did there. I can promise you that no group of people needs to be allowed to occupy a previously settled region with violence in order to continue to exist. I've heard this argument from…

Yes now you've corrected the terms, in your previous comment you claimed the motte was calls for genocide. Regardless, I'm defending what you're calling the bailey as it's easily defensible based on observable current events.

Care to explain how Kristallnacht is in any way different from an intifada? They are literally the same thing, a disorganized mob raping, murdering and attacking innocent civilians. The Arabs have done two intifadas, both resulted in countless dead and injured Jews who were attacked solely for being "el-yahud" aka "yuden" aka Jews.

As I said above, there is no motte and bailey fallacy here. You're the one making false claims about harassment of hamas supporters.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#923

Post by bigyabai »

tomohawk wrote: post #20

This is rich. The Universities that caved to student activists engaged in antisemitism and other egregious activities should now fight for their rights to be cowards? Or the Universities that engaged in racist DEI programs are now going to stand on principal? Give me a break.

I thought private institutions weren't supposed to worry about federal guidelines. Does this mean Trump University can be attacked if a sufficiently powerful liberal wants to smear their university president for his antisemitic behavior?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#924

Post by xracy »

eszed wrote: post #893
xracy wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh, yeah, the "indebted worker" concept there sounds scary and bad and not what I'm looking for. I think a lot of companies like to appeal to the idea of a meritocracy. I'm just saying this could make it a convincing appeal.

I think "appeal to" is the operative term, without necessarily much substance behind it.

I mean, that's why I'm trying to find the performative case they could make that they actually do it, that also results in them doing it.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#925

Post by starik36 »

viccis wrote: post #919
starik36 wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about outright harassment of Jewish students at Columbia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_at_Columbia_Unive... Does that qualify? No? Now replace Jewish with African American. Is that still OK in your book?

There was no significant harassment, and what harassment there was was a fraction compared to the harassment of Palestinian supports by others (including Jewish students and faculty). Even the article you posted points out that it's bunk at the top lol

Oh? No harassment. Well shoot, we should let the Jewish students know.

Jewish Students Sheltered Inside College Library During Protest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eFbKViNrMo

35 percent of of Jewish students say there has been violence or acts of hate targeting Jews on their campus https://www.hillel.org/more-than-one-third-of-jewish-college...

But sure, all good. The apologist for the violent maniacs says it's all good. So then it must be good.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#926

Post by viccis »

starik36 wrote: post #925
viccis wrote: post #919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no significant harassment, and what harassment there was was a fraction compared to the harassment of Palestinian supports by others (including Jewish students and faculty). Even the article you posted points out that it's bunk at the top lol

Oh? No harassment. Well shoot, we should let the Jewish students know. Jewish Students Sheltered Inside College Library During Protest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eFbKViNrMo 35 percent of of Jewish students say there has been violence or acts of hate targeting Jews on their campus https://www.hillel.org/more-than-one-third-of-jewish-college... But sure, all good. The apologist for the violent maniacs says it's a…

That's like asking Stormfront if they think there's a threat from non-whites.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#927

Post by starik36 »

viccis wrote: post #926
starik36 wrote: post #925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? No harassment. Well shoot, we should let the Jewish students know. Jewish Students Sheltered Inside College Library During Protest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eFbKViNrMo 35 percent of of Jewish students say there has been violence or acts of hate targeting Jews on their campus https://www.hillel.org/more-than-one-third-of-jewish-college... But sure, all good. The apologist for the violent maniacs says it's a…

That's like asking Stormfront if they think there's a threat from non-whites.

Comparing Jews to Nazis. I think you might be a horrible person and a troll.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#928

Post by klodolph »

glial wrote: post #554
klodolph wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re making useful points but you’re also just choosing convenient definitions that make your point of view “correct”. The parent comment has a definition of “rights” that admits their existence… and I think what you’ve demonstrated is that you have a different definition of “rights”. In other words, you’ve demonstrated that you haven’t really grasped the underlying meaning that the parent comment is getting at, an…

I appreciate your analysis, but another way to consider this discussion is that asserting the existence of "rights" is an unsupported conversational maneuver that frames the debate. The grandparent is defining a concept into existence, which is a questionable move IMO, despite being tradition.

All you have to do is recognize it as a statement of opinion. It’s not a “maneuver”, it’s just an argument, and you can disagree with it.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#929

Post by viccis »

trustinmenowpls wrote: post #921
viccis wrote: post #920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, my terms are correct. The bailey is: "they are calling for the genocide of Jews!!!" Once challenged, you will retreat to the more easily proven: "they are advocating for the return the land to the Palestinian people", as you just did there. I can promise you that no group of people needs to be allowed to occupy a previously settled region with violence in order to continue to exist. I've heard this argument from…

Yes now you've corrected the terms, in your previous comment you claimed the motte was calls for genocide. Regardless, I'm defending what you're calling the bailey as it's easily defensible based on observable current events. Care to explain how Kristallnacht is in any way different from an intifada? They are literally the same thing, a disorganized mob raping, murdering and attacking innocent civilians. The Arabs ha…

>Care to explain how Kristallnacht is in any way different from an intifada

Calls for a "global intifada" are simply calls to oppose the existence of the state of Israel as a settler colony in the land formerly known as Palestine. That's it. It is an immoral country, built by settlers as an ethnostate, and its existence is a moral stain on the world. Has literally nothing to do with "Jews" (I feel the same way about the Muslims in Nagorno-Karabakh right now) and everything to do with a bunch of jack boot fascists who ethnically cleansed an area and continue to oppress the remainder of the people there at gunpoint in massive concentration camps.

Calling for an intifada (which just means "resistance") against that is no difference than calling for the end of Rhodesia. This is a nation that made a man into a celebrity for raping prisoners.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#930

Post by viccis »

starik36 wrote: post #927
viccis wrote: post #926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like asking Stormfront if they think there's a threat from non-whites.

Comparing Jews to Nazis. I think you might be a horrible person and a troll.

Some of them were (kapos) and helped found Israel. They watched and learned a lot.
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