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Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

strongtowns.org

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Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#61

Post by h2zizzle »

crazygringo wrote: post #30
renewiltord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people do unfairly call me a NIMBY but ultimately I’m just trying to make sure that the thing that is being built in my backyard is community-oriented, socially-responsible, ethical, environmentally conscious, and built by local artisans using local materials. And if we can’t do it right, then maybe we shouldn’t do it.

That's a great attitude if you can afford it. But try telling it to the single low-income parent trying to raise their kids who just needs to make ends meet at the end of the month. Unless you have a massive wealth redistribution plan in place, with massive, extremely progressive local taxes so everyone can afford the massively higher prices you'll be forcing on everyone?

The problem is that the big corporate stores end up making the town poorer. They siphon money out of the community, undercut local businesses, and turn over control of a tax-producing plot of land to a corporate office out-of-state (country?) that probably doesn't care what happens to the town. If they pull out, you're screwed. If they stay and have deleterious policies of one kind or another, you're screwed.

The local businesses and well-to-do need to come together and make a plan to make keeping these companies out a more palatable notion. Special pricing for people on government assistance is the way one of my local co-op grocers does it. I'm sure there are other ways to innovate, too, but adopting them requires realizing that the less affluent are your neighbors, not obstacles.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#62

Post by h2zizzle »

potato3732842 wrote: post #12
alibrarydweller wrote: post #6

The tension this article writes about can be expressed to a tech audience as a compression problem. Dollar General wins out on low prices - essentially compressing their value prop onto a single dimension, prices. They won't do the Strong Towns things like sponsor a park or thoughtfully curate what they sell to fit community needs. There's no button to press in a DG that says "sell more eggplants please". The value o…

> There's no button to press in a DG that says "sell more eggplants please". Yes, there is. They absolutely manage stock based on demand, as does every other chain store.

No, they definitely sell you what they want you to buy, not necessarily what you want to buy. Demand is an input, but not a determinant, of what gets stocked. The calculus ultimately determining what gets stocked happens far away from the storefront, and way above the heads of your given GM, involving relationships with suppliers and the image the store brand wants to project, at scale. In fact, in most stores, GMs are barred from making deals with suppliers to determine stock. You HAVE to go to corporate if, say, you want your local CVS to sell your locally-produced product. A GM who puts something that isn't in the planogram on a shelf is getting sacked.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#63

Post by s1artibartfast »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #48
stemlord wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemed pretty clear to me: they not only don't pay nearly as much in taxes as local businesses but are subsidized by local taxpayers

Why would they not pay as much taxes as local businesses? I have never seen a tax rate that differentiates between local and non local businesses.

I dont think primary taxes are a real concern, but local spending of profits is relevant.

For a local economy, it matters if the store owner lives and spends their money in town, or lives somewhere in NYC or China.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#64

Post by lotsofpulp »

yesfitz wrote: post #60
lotsofpulp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they not pay as much taxes as local businesses? I have never seen a tax rate that differentiates between local and non local businesses.

I found the answer to your question by opening the article and using Ctrl+F to find the word "tax". Here are the excerpts: >"In an episode of the Strong Towns podcast, [Stacey Mitchell, co-director of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance] explains how companies like Walmart or Target convince local officials that they’re bringing jobs and financial benefits to the area often in exchange for tax breaks and subsidies…

That specific mechanism is an example of corrupt/stupid politicians being a drain on the city’s economy, not the big box stores.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#65

Post by h2zizzle »

mycall wrote: post #40

On aside, visiting Mexico City now and I went to Sears and Woolworths. These are extinct in the US but could we still consider them Big Box Stores?

Department stores. I think the strategy was different. Big box focus on driving down prices by working with the cheapest suppliers they can get away with. IIUC Sears in particular was more vertically-integrated, and focused more on in-house brands that cost only a bit less than name brands, but were of high-enough quality that they became brand names themselves.

Would love someone with knowledge of this to chime in.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#66

Post by arrosenberg »

potato3732842 wrote: post #21
maxsilver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked at a corporate-private-equity-owned Dollar store (but not DG, specifically), I highly doubt that's true. They "manage stock on demand" in that they count SKUs sold and replenish as needed / as they have availability, sure. And they probably do a inventory / count day once in a while, to account for loss(shrink). But that's about it. They might occasionally get to pick from a few custom options f…

I'm familiar with chain auto parts. They all try and cater to local needs. A store in Texas is gonna have more varieties of A/C stuff on the shelf (we're talking retail parts here, not vehicle specific stuff you buy at the counter). Stores in the rust belt are gonna have more exhaust stuff, etc. I'm only familiar with Napa from a management level and they're kind of the odd one out but as far as the other chains go w…

Vastly different business model than Dollar General. DG customers, by definition, have to take what they can get. If you don't like what NAPA has, you can go online or to another store.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#67

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

potato3732842 wrote: post #12
alibrarydweller wrote: post #6

The tension this article writes about can be expressed to a tech audience as a compression problem. Dollar General wins out on low prices - essentially compressing their value prop onto a single dimension, prices. They won't do the Strong Towns things like sponsor a park or thoughtfully curate what they sell to fit community needs. There's no button to press in a DG that says "sell more eggplants please". The value o…

> There's no button to press in a DG that says "sell more eggplants please". Yes, there is. They absolutely manage stock based on demand, as does every other chain store.

Demand that they recognize. Businesses only recognize demand in narrow bands... if they don't sell eggplant, then they can't check to see how much eggplant is moving and increase supply of it. At best, they have to rely on business intelligence that 3 years after the entire country has gone eggplant wild "hey, maybe we should be selling eggplant too". In other words, they're completely blind to demand that doesn't rise to the level of "some fad or mania for this product has emerged".

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#68

Post by yesfitz »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #64
yesfitz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the answer to your question by opening the article and using Ctrl+F to find the word "tax". Here are the excerpts: >"In an episode of the Strong Towns podcast, [Stacey Mitchell, co-director of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance] explains how companies like Walmart or Target convince local officials that they’re bringing jobs and financial benefits to the area often in exchange for tax breaks and subsidies…

That specific mechanism is an example of corrupt/stupid politicians being a drain on the city’s economy, not the big box stores.

Did any of the article that I didn't include in my comment impact your opinion?

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#69

Post by rexpop »

kstrauser wrote: post #53
rexpop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I definitely want to support my neighbors, but I don't want to buy Local Brand Ketchup. I want Heinz, darnit. For the love of God, why??

Because you never tried this Local Brand Ketchup, which was ketchup in the same way that a Yugo was a car. It met the legal definition but no one was holding it up as the platonic ideal of its kind. Whatever brand of ketchup you prefer, it’s better than this one was, unless you worked for that grocer and convinced yourself you liked it, in which case bless your heart.

Nah, I think that's just the perspective of a petulant bourgeois brat. No serious adult would have that reaction to a condiment earnestly fabricated—especially not at the cost of outsourcing taste—let alone property ownership—to an absentee landlord!

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#70

Post by ryathal »

alabastervlog wrote: post #16
iambateman wrote: post #4

I _love_ Strong Towns but I want to push back against this article. Strong Towns is a leading voice on YIMBY, but this is reminiscent of the common arguments I hear from NIMBY folks..."they shouldn't be allowed to build here because ____" is definitionally NIMBY. While I don't love Dollar General or shop there very often, I have a hard time understanding why it's a "swindle." The reason people shop there is because t…

I've noticed DG stocks oddball sizes of packaged foods I've never seen anywhere else, not even at gas station convenience stores. It's usually their "large" size, and significantly smaller than the "large" size at other stores. Next time I'm in there I'll check the unit price on those. I'm betting it's pretty bad, because usually if a business is doing anything distinctive like that, it's to screw people.

Dollar stores are generally more expensive in the long run than other stores. They make their money on higher per unit margins and/or vastly lower quality of products.
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