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Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

strongtowns.org

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Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#41

Post by [deleted] »

q_andrew wrote: post #13
briandear wrote: post #2

> We don't want a corporate, faceless box store coming in with no stake in our community. Who is “we?” If the community wants Washington General, then they’ll shop there. If they want the lowest possible prices, they’ll shop at Dollar General. What it sounds like is that Washington General wants effectively a tariff on Dollar General so people won’t shop there. Because if it’s strictly “what’s best for the community,…

Dollar General is a mega corporation that can operate on an entirely different level than local stores. They pay their workers less and the profits go out of state. On a store-by-store basis though, Dollar general is a fragile establishment, management will not hesitate to abandon the location if they are spending too much money propping up the store. And the overhead for these stores is higher than it needs to be -…

[deleted]

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#42

Post by Ajedi32 »

nradov wrote: post #32
renewiltord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people do unfairly call me a NIMBY but ultimately I’m just trying to make sure that the thing that is being built in my backyard is community-oriented, socially-responsible, ethical, environmentally conscious, and built by local artisans using local materials. And if we can’t do it right, then maybe we shouldn’t do it.

Is this satire or are you actually serious with that nonsense? I can't even tell.

I'm pretty sure it's satire. "built by local artisans" is the give away. Other than that line, there are lots of people who would post that unironically.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#43

Post by renewiltord »

crazygringo wrote: post #30
renewiltord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people do unfairly call me a NIMBY but ultimately I’m just trying to make sure that the thing that is being built in my backyard is community-oriented, socially-responsible, ethical, environmentally conscious, and built by local artisans using local materials. And if we can’t do it right, then maybe we shouldn’t do it.

That's a great attitude if you can afford it. But try telling it to the single low-income parent trying to raise their kids who just needs to make ends meet at the end of the month. Unless you have a massive wealth redistribution plan in place, with massive, extremely progressive local taxes so everyone can afford the massively higher prices you'll be forcing on everyone?

I'd tell them about the importance of union rights. We're all sacrificing a little but the important thing is to protect unions.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#44

Post by hx8 »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #37
crazygringo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great attitude if you can afford it. But try telling it to the single low-income parent trying to raise their kids who just needs to make ends meet at the end of the month. Unless you have a massive wealth redistribution plan in place, with massive, extremely progressive local taxes so everyone can afford the massively higher prices you'll be forcing on everyone?

An angle on that: Imagine getting rid of the big cost factor, the car. And having a walkable neighborhood with school, stores, medical care, workplaces in workable (or short bicycle ride) away. Of course this won't magically happen when a single DG is rejected.

We can also do a lot to help low income families by decreasing housing costs and medical costs, both of which seem as likely as building walkable communities in the US.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#45

Post by Lendal »

parpfish wrote: post #7

> "we're not against change, we're not against business, if you want to open a nice little coffee shop and bookstore, but Dollar General just isn't quite a good fit." this line stood out to me because it mirrored a lot of debate in my small rural community when a dollar general proposed moving in (spoiler alert: DG won). the debates around DG had a way of exposing some previously-unseen class and economic divisions i…

People are generally in agreement against lower wages and higher property prices, but when it comes time to sell the store, they're gonna sell to the highest bidder. If that bidder wants to put in something that has the effect of putting more locals out of business and lowering regional wages, it has the effect of extracting wealth from the local community. But that's the next generation's problem. I want my cheap stuff now. I want the highest price for the assets I'm turning over to the 1%, which only wants to extract wealth from the community long term.

I believe there's no way to resolve this except to use the tax system to put society back in balance. Regular workers need to be able to afford to live a normal life again. The Dollar Generals of the world have become too good at wealth extraction. They look good in the short term, but over time through extremely low wages they drain local communities dry until they become a husk of what they were. Then people can't afford to fight against Dollar General and Walmart any more. They need the lower prices to survive, but in making these bad deals they further impoverish their own communities.

The people who say they want to "keep the coffee shop character" are focusing on the wrong thing. That's a bad strategy. They need to be looking at the long-term economics of their communities and bringing that danger to the forefront. It's not about character. Character doesn't pay the bills. It's about wealth extraction. About lowering regional wages to the point your community becomes dependent on government assistance and can no longer afford to shop anywhere else but Dollar General.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#46

Post by jollyllama »

Is there anything in DG that's healthy? The garbage these stores are feeding people is an externality that is contributing to negative health outcomes. To allow it is to condemn the rural underclass to eating toxic waste, it's equivalent to allowing them to live in lean to slums and shouldn't be allowed.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#47

Post by lotsofpulp »

q_andrew wrote: post #13
briandear wrote: post #2

> We don't want a corporate, faceless box store coming in with no stake in our community. Who is “we?” If the community wants Washington General, then they’ll shop there. If they want the lowest possible prices, they’ll shop at Dollar General. What it sounds like is that Washington General wants effectively a tariff on Dollar General so people won’t shop there. Because if it’s strictly “what’s best for the community,…

Dollar General is a mega corporation that can operate on an entirely different level than local stores. They pay their workers less and the profits go out of state. On a store-by-store basis though, Dollar general is a fragile establishment, management will not hesitate to abandon the location if they are spending too much money propping up the store. And the overhead for these stores is higher than it needs to be -…

> They pay their workers less and the profits go out of state.

Almost every local retail business I know of pays less than larger businesses, simply due to not meeting the 50 employee minimum that subjects businesses to a host of other labor laws such as ACA and FMLA.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#48

Post by lotsofpulp »

stemlord wrote: post #24
BrawnyBadger53 wrote: post #19

I feel like this article failed to effectively discuss the very important point that is how these big box stores tend to be a drain on the city's economy. It's sorta there but generally these stores tend to make communities poorer in the long run.

Seemed pretty clear to me: they not only don't pay nearly as much in taxes as local businesses but are subsidized by local taxpayers

Why would they not pay as much taxes as local businesses? I have never seen a tax rate that differentiates between local and non local businesses.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#49

Post by eorthling »

I've spent the majority of my adult life in small towns, some co-opted by chain stores and some resisting. Have to agree that the terrible space usage and car-centric design of these buildings has a huge impact. I don't totally get the "keep your money local" angle - nobody is going to locally produce toilet paper or toothpaste or affordable home goods that you need today and don't exist in thrift stores, but yes the chain stores don't source local goods even when locals are desperate enough to sell for competitive prices, and that's not good for your local economy.

But another aspect I didn't see mentioned is the disruption of skill and network development. The jobs these places bring are largely entry-level menial jobs. Anyone who takes that job is not learning business skills or apprenticing in something their town needs. Not only that, but the new chain store is not going to build relationships with small businesses in the region, leaving your town more exposed to national/global economic disruptions.

I've also heard gossip about some dollar generals in small towns being fronts for drug activity, but I don't know.

Re: Small Town America vs. Big Box Stores

#50

Post by kstrauser »

dylan604 wrote: post #34
rexpop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I definitely want to support my neighbors, but I don't want to buy Local Brand Ketchup. I want Heinz, darnit. For the love of God, why??

Probably because they've become accustomed to the taste so that taste is what their brain associates with as Ketchup. Switching to someone's local brand that will have a different recipe/formula (probably a lot less sugar), the taste will be different. To their brain, this is not ketchup rather some tomato paste sauce. Obviously, ketchup is not going to be the only thing that this fits. Pretty much any processed food…

I picked that as a random example, but yeah. We all have brands that we think of as "the" canonical version of that thing. There are certain chili powders I prefer. Certain spaghetti sauces. Certain grape jellies. Certain barbeque sauces. The others aren't bad. They're also generally high quality items. It's just that they're different from what my mouth expects.
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